Carb problem

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: Carb problem
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Corey Walker, Brownsboro TX on Sunday, January 24, 2016 - 07:08 pm:

I had a fuel starvation problem but now I think it's a carb problem. I did get some rusty gunk out of the sediment bulb yesterday. Got gas flowing to the carb. Car was running fine idling then it started again, the starvation. I have a 4 ball Kingston. It will start and run a few seconds and die, but if you open the petcock on the carb bowl it is full and will flow fine. Close it and start it, the it will run a few seconds and die. If you open the petcock the instant it dies, it still has plenty gas in the bowl. Could the air vent hole in the carb body cause this? The gas cap vent hole is open.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth in Alabama on Sunday, January 24, 2016 - 07:23 pm:

Corey, did you recently fill the gas tank up? It sounds a lot like when I filled my tank up after it had been sitting a long time. The ethanol eats all of the varnish out of the tank from the old gas and it looks like rust colored dust.

Just need to really clean carb out really well along with fuel line. Keep checking the sediment bulb along with the carb bulb.

If that isn't your problem then we will need more detail to help diagnose the problem. Cleaning out carb real well is a good idea regardless.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Sunday, January 24, 2016 - 07:42 pm:

Did someone install a Grose Jet or does the carb have a needle and seat like it is supposed to have? The Grose jets cause this sort of problem.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Corey Walker, Brownsboro TX on Sunday, January 24, 2016 - 07:45 pm:

It did sit for a few years. Ethanol is the worst crap ever. When it first came out it ate through the shellac on my float. The tank was new 22 years ago. It used to get stopped up with white powder that I think was the ethanol eating the galvanized coating from the inside of the tank. Only thing I can think of. Guess I need to fool with the carb more. I've never had it apart all the way. I bought it rebuilt from Russ Potter years ago, when gas was gas.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Corey Walker, Brownsboro TX on Sunday, January 24, 2016 - 07:46 pm:

Royce, I think it has a Grose Jet, I have had it that far apart.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Keith Gumbinger, Kenosha, WI on Sunday, January 24, 2016 - 09:57 pm:

I had a carb. with a Grouse Jet on my '14 and it caused a similar problem. Get rid of the Grouse Jet and put in an original type needle and seat.

I hate Grouse Jets!

Keith


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Black - Dallas on Sunday, January 24, 2016 - 10:36 pm:

Right on about the ethanol and long term storage. Not only absorbs the gunk in the tank but also the water out of the ambient air. Plugs stuff up, creates a thin but counter-productive layer of water at the bottom of the tank, and lowers the octane in the remaining fuel. Antique cars and small engines are more susceptible to this than modern cars. And the symptom of all of this is just as you describe... The engine will run for a few seconds and die. You can re-start and it dies again after a few seconds. For storage more than a couple months, add Ethanol Fuel Stabilizer to the tank. For storage longer than that, either drain the tank, or burn it off.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Black - Dallas on Sunday, January 24, 2016 - 10:45 pm:

FYI - you can still find ethanol free gas at some rare stations. You can do a google search for ethanol free gas and there are websites that locate them for you. For Corey, Southside Feed & Supply in Athens is reported to have ethanol free gas.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Corey Walker, Brownsboro TX on Monday, January 25, 2016 - 01:45 pm:

Well I took the carb apart and I'm surprised it would start at all. The bottom of the bowl had a bunch of muddy goop inside it and when I took the 4 balls out it looked like a mud pie. I put it back on and wow does it run better, but it seemed harder to start. It idles slower and runs a lot smoother. I'll fool with it some more later.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Lloid on Monday, January 25, 2016 - 02:16 pm:

I had some issues on the 26 was it kept getting a little rust in the bulb but I took it off and blasted it and sealed it with tank sealer and painted it back black and 6 months later on my roadster pick up, no more rust when I open it up. It stopped the spit sputter it had when I bought it. Oh yes the gas is terrible and will gum up carbs in 60-90 days of sitting. Or so it seems but even in the winter i start them every 4-5 weeks and use fuel treatment.Tim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By R.V. Anderson on Monday, January 25, 2016 - 08:31 pm:

The problem with a GJ on a 4 ball is that it must be mounted upside down due to the lever action of the float valve. I don't care much for GJs but Russ Potter does a nice job with them on this application. The trouble with the upside down mounting is that it makes the valve much more sensitive to any sludge or crud; the slightest amount will cause the balls to stick. I had trouble with one that Russ had rebuilt; with his assistance the problem was traced to, sure enough, ethanol gas. Russ replaced the valve and after installing the carb I filled up with non-ethanol fuel which I was assured was pure gasoline. I have used that fuel exclusively and have had no trouble whatever since.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Corey Walker, Brownsboro TX on Monday, January 25, 2016 - 08:31 pm:

All seemed well, a few rounds around the yard and then trouble. I pulled the carb bowl and it has flaky gunk in it. I'm going to pull the tank and clean it out. No use thinking it will get better. Before it got gunk back in it though that 4 ball Kingston had it running like a Singer sewing machine.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stan Howe Helena, Montana on Monday, January 25, 2016 - 09:23 pm:

4 Ball problems. The main problems with the 4 balls seem to be: 1. The needle valve sticking 2. Hard to start 3. Variation in idle quality and speed. 4. Difficult to adjust mixture "just right."

1. The original design pulls the needle away from the seat when the float drops. Grose jets and the systems I have seen installed to modernize them rely on head pressure to open the valve. It doesn't work well, especially with the new gas with ethanol in it. Any slight stickiness from fuel or adhesion of any kind will cause the needle to stick unless the float arm is pulling it off the seat. (As an aside to this, the float/arm system must have weight enough to be able to pull the needle off the seat. A little bent wire that I've seen installed in place of the cast arm is not heavy enough to pull the needle open)

2. The ball seats and balls wear to where they are not round and so do not seal well when the ball is in the seat. Air enters around the balls and causes rough idle. The ball seats need to be ground to size and contour and new correct size and weight balls installed.

3. Read number 2 so I don't have to type it again.

4. The tip on the original needle has a very short taper which makes it hard to adjust. Lengthening the taper helps.

Also, float setting height is pretty critical.

Hope this helps.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Corey Walker, Brownsboro TX on Tuesday, January 26, 2016 - 02:39 pm:

I'm about to try again, one more time before I pull the tank. I drained the gas out into a can and filtered it through a paint strainer and there really wasn't much in there at all. I took the carb bowl off and I can see how that upside down grose jet can be a problem. I blew through the fuel inlet and sometimes it is nothing and sometimes it takes more to get that ball to unseat so maybe you need too keep an almost full tank no matter if you are on flat ground. A regular needle valve would be better. I set the float a bit higher. I remember setting it lower when I coated the float with PVC pipe glue after ethanol ate the shellac. I thought it might be heavier so I set it lower, or I set it lower to try to stop gas from overflowing before I found out my float was sinking. I can't remember. Anyhow I've got to make a gasket and see what happens.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Corey Walker, Brownsboro TX on Tuesday, January 26, 2016 - 08:40 pm:

I guess it wasn't a carb problem. I thought I had it fixed and so I got going about a 1/2 mile and it died. My cousin towed me home. I put on a Holley G carb. Went about a 1/10th of a mile and back, around the yard and same thing. Took out the tank, gunk in tank, no screen in the sediment bulb.


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