Apart from the brass, color, no coils/timer what else is wrong with this T?
I asked for block number but they say they can't read the first number (suspect)
Lastly... what type of wheels are those?
Thanks for your expertise in advance!
It appears to be a '19 to me. The one part that is suspect is the one piece front spring clamp. That should be a '20 feature although the changeover date for that part is unclear. It does have forged truss rods which is a good sign. Ask them to lift the front seat. It should have a round gas tank.
The non-Ford wheels are split rims with balloon tires. I wouldn't give ten grand for this car because of the extra dough it would cost to put it back to the Ford ignition system. The presence of a water pump suggests that it may also need a new radiator.
But "It has a rare electric start."
I just noticed one more thing, I think I can see the casting date on the block, July 23 1921.
Price wise its a 8 to $10,000 T at the most. It looks like it still has the original round tube radiator or at least an older original round tube style on it.
Looks like it has a 'overflow' bottle on it for boil over. That means it probably has heating problems. The water pump probably was added to help with overheating.
I think the body was removed and restored and the chassis was given a basic going over and the car was reassembled with available parts.
If your interested I would ask about the engine and driveline condition and if there was any work done on it first before anything else. The radiator is a 800.00 item to start with and probably should be replaced. If it was a 'restored car' it should have been replaced.
Lo0ks like a 1920 or 21. The frame is heavily pitted, suggesting either the frame has been replaced or the body has had lots of rust repairs. Weird running board supports welded in place.
Upholstery, wishbone and 21" wheels.
The last photo, in the upper right corner, shows the bottom edge of the body, where the sheet metal turns underneath and where it's nailed to the wood. Instead of seeing a clearly defined sheet metal edge and nails, I see caked-on body filler. Makes me wonder about the rest of the body metal, especially considering Royce's observations above.
Robert to sum things up the gold or 'brass'?? that appears to be on the side lamps and taillight probably came from a can of Krylon spraypaint.
If that's so that tells what kind of restoration went into this T.
I'm cheap but I don't think I would have sprayed gold spray paint anywhere on a Model T.
Take a close look at that throttle. There is what appears to be a wire attached to the throttle arm. It goes back through a tube into the driver compartment and comes out on the passenger side. Must be why there is a spring on the carburetor.
Also helical coils on the rear, so what did he do to the rear spring? The fake paint on the headlights and taillight do not add to the look of the car either.
Wow... Thanks guys! I have one more I am looking at I'll post it in a while... It's a 20 with a 23 engine but she looks really good and for the price I think I'm game... But let me put it to the experts first!
Sent PM about Nice 19 T of longtime friend of mine
I would agree with what the above posters have said. The wheels look to me like the Balloon tire split rim wheels from a 25 or 26. They will work fine for a driver, but if you want it to look correct, they should be replaced by 30X3 1/2 clincher wheels.
I would also paint the "brass" parts black. That car was not from the brass era.
The throttle link should be fairly easy to fix. The ignition system if it runs well, will be just fine unless you do decide to go to the original type coils. However, you may have a bum magneto which was replaced with a distributor because it was cheaper than pulling the engine to fix the mag. The most obvious potential costly repair would be a new radiator and remove the water pump.
Offer $7,000 and if he won't go that low, buy the black one.
The cable to the starter is not the way they were. To me it looks thinner which suggests the battery is 12 volts. While this will work, it also will fail unless done correctly. The carb is the wrong style and not connected correctly. Of course the wheels are incorrect for the year. Unless the steering gear has been changed , the steering will be very heavy. The chassis is very pitted, not well done.
Like the color. The wheels are after market and not Firestone. These have 6 lugs I think Firestone would be 5. Looks like from the setting it's being sold by a dealer. No bids, over priced for opening bid for the current market and still has a reserve that is unknown.
?Restored to go get ice cream so no real work done to engine etc?
I think the bottle under the over flow is just to keep the rusty water off the show room floor, bet they are filling the radiator to the top. As most open cars did not get a starter in 1919 and if it had the correct engine as pointed out above it would be rare for a factory car. Does the title number match the engine number? If it was less money, if I had the money, I would enjoy driving it.
Inventive use of used plastic container for coolant recovery system...... Nice !
Is no one mentioning the completely wrong upholstery?
I would run a magnet around the bottom of the body, I suspect a liberal use of "bondo" to cover up rust-out.
No way would I consider this a $10K car.
Go for the other one you are looking at!
The 1919 open cars did not have dashboards with an instrument panel. After April 1919 they came from the factory with the holes for the generator and starter blocked off. People could upgrade their cars at a later date. Around July 1919 Ford introduced the 1920 model which did have the electrical set up as an option, but those cars did not come with kerosene lights.
I agree with most of the other comments above. This is of course coming from a guy who has a sky-blue over black 1919 touring with 21" wheels...
: ^ )
Looks like Excelsior tires on a split rim. The spare is shot, the side wall in one place is missing and you can see the tube. Would have to replace the wheels totally, the upholstery like was said before is totally wrong also. The splash apron has a few ripples in it that are not consistent with the way metal would wrinkle, I'm suspecting a bondo fix in that area. The fenders look nice and straight though. The coil spring on the rear are not Hasslers, there is a shock absorber shaft running though the middle of them. The frame as has been said is very pitted yet the rear axle and torque tube are not...also it's the wrong rear axle for a 19, I'd say it's probably 22 or later.
There is more to do on this car to correct it than you'd have to do on a car you would restore...it's definitely not worth the 10K he's asking...more like 3K maybe 5K max, but not more than that. The body color is nice though and yes loose the gold and paint them black. On my car I didn't have headlight bezels, so I went to a swap swap meet and bought real 1915 headlight bezels, because at that time I liked the brass (I still do, but I'm more tasteful about it, limiting my obsession to bolts, nuts and screws...sorry Larry Smith, I like brass acorn nuts )...but I decided that it wouldn't be right to have to brass headlight bezels, so I painted them black...and you know, my car looks better with them black than it ever would with them as polished brass.
According to the encyclopedia, some 1919 open cars had starters and generators from the beginning as an option.
"1919 MAJOR MODEL YEAR FEATURES:Note: Starter was an option on the open cars at $75. (Weight 95 lbs.) Demountable rims were an additional $25. (Weight 55 lbs.) The “1919” model year began in January 1919 with the introduction of the electrical equipment as standard in the closed cars."
They also had dashboards, leather covered wood at first and then steel by mid year.
Thanks again for all the comments... This 1919 is officially off the table... I am still waiting for pics from another 1919... Once I see those and find out what the owner wants I will post here then make my choice... Honestly I'm ready to get the 20, but I was told the other 1919 is worth waiting for... So I wait... Hopefully I don't lose the 20.