Rookie Question: Crankcase Material

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: Rookie Question: Crankcase Material
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Black - Dallas on Thursday, January 28, 2016 - 02:48 pm:

Just finished soda blasting my crankcase. Dumb question, but I gotta know.... Why/what is the yellow and orange metal? I was expecting all gray iron.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Thursday, January 28, 2016 - 02:58 pm:

The pan is steel.The brass was splattered on to seal places that might leak, like seams and around rivets. (I'd like to see some factory footage showing how it was done.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Nicholas Lingg - Tarboro, NC on Thursday, January 28, 2016 - 02:59 pm:

What you see is GOOD. It is brazing compound. It looks like it may have new arms put on in the past.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Henry Petrino in Modesto, CA on Thursday, January 28, 2016 - 03:13 pm:

Years ago when I took my engine apart I found the same thing. I thought, "Oh crap! This thing is a mess. It's been pieced together and is probably total garbage!" Then I came to this forum and learned better. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Thursday, January 28, 2016 - 03:13 pm:

I believe you'll find it on all Model T pans.




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Layden Butler on Thursday, January 28, 2016 - 03:29 pm:

I believe the brazing, besides sealing, also keeps the 2 pieces joined more solidly to keep them from working against each other. There is no leakage issue with the front snout and it is brazed on. The dam with crankshaft seal was put on after brazing and did not need the structural strength of brazing. It is soldered for a good seal.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Black - Dallas on Thursday, January 28, 2016 - 03:44 pm:

Whew! Thanks guys. Interesting stuff. I gather that the orange braze is a copper based alloy. Anyone know what the yellow would be? Just curious. Glad to know it looks right.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Nicholas Lingg - Tarboro, NC on Thursday, January 28, 2016 - 04:20 pm:

To make braze flow like that the pan must be red hot. Won't that relieve the stresses in the pan. If so how did they re-straighten it. Did they put in another press and if so was it hot or cold?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Page on Thursday, January 28, 2016 - 05:12 pm:

From the book " FORD METHODS AND THE FORD SHOPS "
Just two pages from this great documentation of the Ford operations in the early day of mass production.
There are 62 separate operation in producing the crank case. Many of them BRAZING.
CRANK BOX it is called in the publication.

Best regards, John Page, Australia.




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Page on Thursday, January 28, 2016 - 05:15 pm:

Two more images from earlier in the operation.




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Page on Thursday, January 28, 2016 - 05:36 pm:

The final page of operations. This is a fascinating study of one of more complex components of the Model T.

Regards, John


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charles Weisgerber on Friday, January 29, 2016 - 12:22 am:

Funny, I also found this Brazing on my pan at the spots shown in the Ford Methods and Shops article, and like others thought "Oh Crap".... while my heart went into arrhythmia. I asked myself.....What did a previous owner do drive this poor car over, a series of boulders? Nice to know this was done at the factory. I discovered it while inspecting what I thought were old clumps of grease and I saw brass. Kind of scary!

Charles


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Friday, January 29, 2016 - 09:46 am:

Looks normal Richard. Just need to check it on a pan jig and then paint it after you are sure it is straight.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Shirley on Friday, January 29, 2016 - 10:27 am:

Look very closely at the front of the pan where the front crankshaft seal goes. This little iron part is sealed to the pan using lead solder. The solder is prone to crack and give you an oil leak. Not a major issue but it makes a mess. Its pretty easy to re-solder the joint or a radiator shop can seal it. If you know an Old School Plumber, he might do it for the bragging rights.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Eric Sole - Castelldefels (Spain) on Friday, January 29, 2016 - 12:12 pm:

Richard - I'm so glad you asked about this. After having my crankcase sandblasted and seeing all the brazing on it, I thought the same as Charles W. People who saw it told me the pan had been poorly repaired, etc...

Now I know better! Thanks all.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Hatch on Friday, January 29, 2016 - 12:17 pm:

I think I read that on the T-100 cars when it came time to rebuild the engines, the modern made pans were scraped and old original pans replaced them. Seems new Ford could not made pans as good as Old Ford could. Dan


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