Old Photo - Early Ford ?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: Old Photo - Early Ford ?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jay - In Northern California on Saturday, January 30, 2016 - 10:10 pm:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Thomas Mullin on Saturday, January 30, 2016 - 10:41 pm:

The body looks like the Wilson Body that Ford and Cadillac used in 1903. Oddly, both of those cars placed the radiator in that notch in the front, between the springs.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Herb Iffrig on Saturday, January 30, 2016 - 10:53 pm:

Can someone lighten up the photo?
I usually can tell the Fords from the Cadillacs like this by the hubs on the wheels. The Cadillacs are longer.
Like Thomas said both cars had the radiator in the front notch and this one is missing the radiator there.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Paulsen - McPherson, KS on Saturday, January 30, 2016 - 10:58 pm:

Looks like a Ford to me.
Ford used full elliptic springs and Cadillac used 1/2 elliptic with frame horns that stick out. Cadillac used at least 3 different hubcaps in 1903 so I'm not sure that is a fool proof way. If you can see the left side, Ford has a hole in the body for the crank; Cadillac does not.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Sunday, January 31, 2016 - 09:12 am:

Not sure this is enough to help, but I zoomed in on the wheels and adjusted the brightness and contrast as best I could.

pic


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen - Eastern Nebraska on Sunday, January 31, 2016 - 09:36 am:

I think Chris nailed it, the front springs are a giveaway. I think from the camera angle the flywheel would show if it were a Cadillac too:

Ford


Cadillac


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen - Eastern Nebraska on Sunday, January 31, 2016 - 09:39 am:

Wait a minute, where's the radiator?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Wells, Hamilton Ontario on Sunday, January 31, 2016 - 10:04 am:

Look at the radiator opening itself. Rounded upper corners and the forward extensions are narrow and shaped like the ones on the Cadillac. Now look at the modern photo of the Ford. Much different. Same body maker for both cars? I don't know, just an observation.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Sunday, January 31, 2016 - 10:24 am:

Often restored early cars has repro bodies and may differ from the original in details.

Ford experimented with air cooling early on and did show a four cylinder air cooled car at a car show in february 1904.

Maybe this was an earlier Ford experiment with air cooling on the 8 hp boxer twin in a Model A? :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jay - In Northern California on Sunday, January 31, 2016 - 10:34 am:

Rob, I was wondering where the radiator was too. Maybe it was doing dual duty making moonshine when no one needed to drive the car. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Sunday, January 31, 2016 - 02:08 pm:

Could be an Elmore Convertible Runabout. The book I have "The Automobiles of 1904" shows one that the steering column and fenders look about the same. It's only a 2 X 1 1/4 image so not a lot to go on.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen - Eastern Nebraska on Sunday, January 31, 2016 - 02:14 pm:

Dave, yes, a few things are confusing when compared with the Ford. The Ford belongs to a friend, and has the larger 1904 10hp radiator. Still, I see no sign of a rad.

Roger, you may have something there, maybe a replacement on another chassis, although many things like the front axle look like the Ford.

Ford's air cooled car was a four cylinder with French hood, and evolved into the B. It also had Ford's first patented u-joint enclosed three point differential system:




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen - Eastern Nebraska on Sunday, January 31, 2016 - 02:24 pm:

Mark, we were typing at the same time. It looks like the Elmore in this ad has semi-elliptical front springs like the Cadillac:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Sunday, January 31, 2016 - 05:26 pm:

The one in the book looks to have full elliptical front springs. The booklet was reprinted by Americana Review (10th printing 1976)of a January 1904 by Frank Leslie's Popular Monthly. Not say going to say it is an Elmore.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Herb Iffrig on Sunday, January 31, 2016 - 07:59 pm:

The first photo shows a car without a radiator in the normal Ford place for the 1903 cars.
Also the horn is not in the normal place. It looks like it is on top of the steering wheel. That might not be a big deal as it is easy to change.
Now scroll down to the photo Rob posted of the Ford with the young man sitting in it. See the control rod running parallel to the steering column? I wonder if it would show up if the photo were lighter.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen - Eastern Nebraska on Sunday, January 31, 2016 - 09:33 pm:

I don't know if this helps, I tried to improve the lighting and sharpen the photo:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jay - In Northern California on Sunday, January 31, 2016 - 10:02 pm:

The photo was low pixel count, so it's hard to do much more with it.


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