Wheel adaptors, model T to model A again...and again...and again.

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: Wheel adaptors, model T to model A again...and again...and again.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Carlton on Wednesday, February 03, 2016 - 11:13 am:

Just to rehash an old subject that seems to get just so far then just drops mid topic, tell me if I'm thinking right.

I've been buying up model T wood wheel hubs to machine and accept my Chevy disc wheels. In the process, I've straightened a few and even welded up some stray holes I've acquired on ebay...super easy. I've changed my mind and now I'm going with early model A.

Looking at Snyder's adaptors, they are not machined to center themselves on the wood wheel hub.

So why not get these in aluminum and re-drill the hub for your alternate 5 lug mounting pattern of choice...bam done! Buy one of the million sizes/lug sizes readily available.

http://www.amazon.com/Spacers-Adapters-Cherokee-Wrangler-Liberty/dp/B00CLJ3J06


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James Elenbaas - Granger, Washington on Wednesday, February 03, 2016 - 08:58 pm:

I have wondered about that myself. Let us know how it turns out if you try it. I may be in the market to do the same thing in the future


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By bob middleton on Wednesday, February 03, 2016 - 10:05 pm:

Bolt patterns 5x4.5 bot one can drill the hub with only one hole will be a little egged but you can drill for larger bolt to solve this
What I did was make two patterns over laid them until holes aligned were I wanted them
They do make 6th 5 lug adapters but the bolts on a T wood wheel are not a standard distance


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Carlton on Thursday, February 04, 2016 - 06:54 am:

Bob I was going to weld up all holes then start over...would that work? Also a 73mm centerbore means I can turn out the center for a tight fit on the center of the hub.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Thursday, February 04, 2016 - 07:28 am:

I would indeed prefer a tight fit to the center of the hub - the thin inner flange on a wood wheel hub isn't dimensioned to take all the forces from the wheel. Even the thicker flange on a wire wheel front hub is supposed to be supported by the close fit of the wire wheel further out on the hub.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Carlton on Thursday, February 04, 2016 - 08:32 am:

I agree Roger. I ordered some, I'll let you guys know.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By bob middleton on Thursday, February 04, 2016 - 09:37 pm:

Yes a tightfit in the center is preferred but narrowing the bolt pattern closer to the hub is another good thing
I was worried by welding up the holes you make it more brittle
On the one using model A wheels on my TT I had 1/2" approx gap and didn't have any issues
Had a gap on the ones I made for a guys touring we filled it with epoxy witch seem to be another solution
Another good idea is to use the adapter centering disks they make when you put juice brakes on a model A sold by speedway


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Carlton on Monday, February 08, 2016 - 09:48 pm:

Sorry I missed your reply, Bob. That is good info. Let me share where I am at...

Ordered 4 adaptors for model T wheels to wood hubs. I also ordered concentric rings to take up the gap. The first problem is that the center bore was NOT 73mm as advertised when they came in.

Next, I ordered 4 adaptors for Model A to wood hubs ($89 for four). They swear that the center bore is as advertised. (They're on the way) I hope to machine these slightly for a tight fit, then I will use it as an template to drill all 8 hubs. 4 for model t, and 4 for model A.

The gap between the Model T adaptor to hub center will allow me to machine a wheel center hub support.

At 22 horsepower, 1.25" adaptors used on 375hp rigs sandwiched to T hubs don't worry me too much. When I redrill I'll know if I need to anneal the hubs. Anything obvious I'm missing or more thoughts on welding on the hubs?

Hub


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By bob middleton on Monday, February 08, 2016 - 10:39 pm:

1.25 adapters keep the center line of the wheels go out to wide will add stress to the bear on that wheel and to narrow you run 8n to steering clearanceyou doing what I have done accept I didn't weld the hbus as you don't want turn them brittle
Again best if you can get the adapter sit on the hub like a spoke if not fill the void with resgn


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By n maver on Wednesday, February 10, 2016 - 05:48 pm:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Carlton on Saturday, February 13, 2016 - 04:46 am:

NICE!

Here's what I came up with. I'm not an expert in anything, but I love a good challenge :-)

Bob, wheel bearing stress should be a non issue. wood wheel fellows are 1.25ish inches and if that were the case, wheels would only come in one back spacing, so I'm pretty optimistic.

As for welding on cast steel, I read and then learned some new things the hard way. Here's how I avoided heat cracks and hardness...

media blast hubs, drill holes out then file clean. (holes are pretty much impossible to sandblast for decontaminating years of grease.

Preheat hubs with oxy/acel torch. weld hole(I used TIG), peen weld while red hot(relieves stress), move to opposite hole, weld, peen, use torch from time to time to keep heat even. flip hub over, repeat.

Then I used the torch to let the hub cool SLOWLY over time. That worked beautifully.

I bought concentric rings 4 for $7 from Amazon. They are 57.1mm to 73.1mm. They slip over all four hubs. I have at least 12 hubs and the tolerances on the radius are all different. I barely kissed them on the lathe so that the rings sit flat on the front of the hubs.

I machined the O.D. on those $7 rings to fit into the back of the adaptors. The bevels on both the rings and adaptors match.

I machined two hub plates after welding up those holes to fit on the back of the front hubs as "washers". I want that crude, cast, beat up look and extra strength on the hubs.

The adaptors fit snug on the inside lip of the drum brake ring of the rim. Could I machine a larger inner plate? probably. Do I need to? Not sure but I doubt it. That's a thick section of rim and it fits right in that bevel.

The adaptors fit tight on the hub centers for accurate drilling. I turned a special center punch that fits snug in each hole. These adaptors also fit my '35 wheels which opens up more options.

Pretty much the second time using a lathe so I'm pretty stoked.



here are some pics...
adaptors
adaptors2
adaptors3


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Carlton on Monday, February 15, 2016 - 04:19 am:

I got the rears done tonight. I used Dorman 1/2-20 610-126.1 wheel studs and a 39/64 (.609) drill bit. They came out perfect.

The fronts came out just okay.

On the rears, I welded up the holes and nailed the annealing because they drilled like butter.

On the fronts(the first ones I did without preheating and perfecting my technique), they were too hard so I used a second set of fronts and drilled them as Bob Middleton suggested.

I got .035 and .040 for run out on the rear hubs so I'll call that swell.

wheels


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