Camshaft bearings fit Question

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: Camshaft bearings fit Question
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By lorenzo leon on Thursday, February 04, 2016 - 10:35 am:

I have a problem with the fit of a new front bearing into the engine front bearing hole, Have there been any problems with this part in the past ?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rick Goelz-Knoxville,TN on Thursday, February 04, 2016 - 10:41 am:

There are two different front bearings, someone else will give the specifics, I can't remember even though I had this problem several years ago.

Rick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Thursday, February 04, 2016 - 10:47 am:

Yes, sometimes there is a loose fit - maybe you can shim it?

And sometimes new cam bearings are oval from the force when they were cracked open. Then they need to be pressed back into round with a fixture. (Really bad to have to do that with new parts!)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Thursday, February 04, 2016 - 10:52 am:

Re: Rick's answer above:
Yes, there are also two styles of camshafts, 1909-24 with a long notched front bearing and 1924-27 with a short front bearing without any notch for the front lifter. You can easily see on the camshaft what style it is - on the 1924-27 shaft the front cam lobe is longer than the other 7. Not so on the 09-24 shafts. The style of front bearing must match the shaft, but both styles will fit any T block.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By lorenzo leon on Thursday, February 04, 2016 - 10:55 am:

Rick I know there are two, mine is a 26-7 The cam is a 26-7 with the short front bearing, i am talking of the front of the engine where the bearing mounts ,The one I got measures .005 over OD larger than the center bearing, that one fits right


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Thursday, February 04, 2016 - 10:55 am:

When Mike Bender worked on my engine about three years ago, the new bearings weren't quite round. He used a home made fixture to squeeze them round in a press.






Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By lorenzo leon on Thursday, February 04, 2016 - 11:02 am:

Is there anyone that redo the Babbitt on the original bearings ?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Bender Tulsa Oklahoma on Thursday, February 04, 2016 - 11:07 am:

Lorenzo

It is very rare to find the bearings round on the OD. You can with care use a vise and push them back to round. Always the out of round is 90 degrees from the parting of the shell. After pushing it back you should ream the ID also. Go to modelt-tips.com and watch the video on cam bearings. It will give you the jest of the process


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Thursday, February 04, 2016 - 11:21 am:

See Mike's video on adjusting the fit of cam bearings in the block:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzaeB1t9U5o


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Robison on Thursday, February 04, 2016 - 11:24 am:

Lorenzo- Ford-N-More in Spokane will babbitt your original cam bearings.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Thursday, February 04, 2016 - 11:30 am:

Are you trying to fit a bearing that is made for a worn cam journal? Will the bearing fit in the hole without the cam installed?

(Message edited by redmodelt on February 04, 2016)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By lorenzo leon on Thursday, February 04, 2016 - 11:50 am:

No Mark ,the camshaft is used but standard the bearing is standard ,And I fit it to the shaft with time saver and it fits fine runs just right
it is not tight at the bearing ,when tighten with a clamp see pic.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Thursday, February 04, 2016 - 12:02 pm:

Looks like it's very close to fitting. Carefully file the outside diameter of the bearing. I'll bet of you took off just .001 it would go.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By lorenzo leon on Thursday, February 04, 2016 - 12:11 pm:

Jerry I measured about .005 over.the marks where made by me twisting it around and pushing ,don't want to damage by using too much force


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Thursday, February 04, 2016 - 12:26 pm:

You should not have to clamp the bearing to slide it into the hole except with the c clip. Are the marks on it from installing with/without the cam shaft installed? Do you have it the correct direction? There is a radius at the flange that holds the timing gear and a corresponding cut in the bearing. If it's the wrong direction it could be walking up the radius and spreading out. Other point to check, are you making sure that the two half's are orientated correctly and that the ruff parting edges are properly seating?

Some of us have the opposite problem, the bearing fits loose in the block.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Gould, Folsom, CA on Thursday, February 04, 2016 - 12:51 pm:

Assuming the shells and bearing surfaces have been made round and concentric with each other and the bearing surfaces have been bored or reamed to the right size, here's a method I've used with success. Clamp the bearing in an adjustable lathe chuck, with a dowel the size of the cam journal inserted inside the bearing to keep it from collapsing. Take off .005" or whatever is necessary from the OD of the shell. Reverse the bearing in the chuck and do the same for the other half that was held by the chuck the first go around. With an adjustable check you can center the bearing in the chuck by indexing off either the circumference of the bearing shell or the dowel that takes the place of the cam journal. By indexing in this manner the two cuts line up exactly and, if you indexed off the dowel, the inner bearing surface is concentric with the machined OD of the shell.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By lorenzo leon on Thursday, February 04, 2016 - 01:45 pm:

Mark the fit was tried with and without the cam s.and with the clips only.. you say [[[ Some of us have the opposite problem, the bearing fits loose in the block.]]]with new ones??


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Thursday, February 04, 2016 - 02:09 pm:

Lorenzo,

"with new ones??"


Yes. Sometimes the new ones are too small, other times, the bore in the block is worn too big.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By lorenzo leon on Thursday, February 04, 2016 - 05:23 pm:

Well finally have it in , I had to put it in the vice , and did what Mike said and a little sanding .Now I have another question..
the bearing I set to the hole with the screw on the side, and I find that the gears don't line up
Can I push the crank gear out a little ,or are these aluminum gears at fault, if you look at the bearing it is against the big gear camshaft end [the marks are not on spot I just put it in to test]am I missing something here,
lorenzo

gears


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Thursday, February 04, 2016 - 08:14 pm:

Some times the hole in the block is worn and does not matter if used or new.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Shirley on Thursday, February 04, 2016 - 08:27 pm:

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/257047/299691.html?1342157696 This may Help, once they are poured chuck them in a lathe and bore to size needed. This lets your clean up the cam as needed


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By lorenzo leon on Friday, February 05, 2016 - 11:34 am:

I got it, pulled the crank gear out some now all is well, the keyway was a tad out on the crank gear now its a tad in .tried on the cover and have good clearance [hope this is how its done] Thank you all for your help


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Gould, Folsom, CA on Friday, February 05, 2016 - 11:42 am:

Great videos Mike!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Green on Thursday, March 10, 2016 - 12:09 am:

Hi,

I have poured and precision machined cam bearings with great success. I offer them standard size (.750) and .002 undersized for those with older cams that may be worn.
I also check that they fit in my test engine block before I ship them. $65 each. Core required.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Thursday, March 10, 2016 - 08:38 am:


Don't forget to use an alignment tool like this when you install the cover. If the cover isn't centered on the cam shaft it can cause timer malfunction and/or damage.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Longbranch,WA on Thursday, March 10, 2016 - 11:33 am:

That IS NOT the correct style of centering tool to locate the timing cover - the correct one used by Ford located inside the large circle that the timer shell rides in !


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Gould, Folsom, CA on Thursday, March 10, 2016 - 12:14 pm:

I wondered about that Steve, whether the small hole was concentric with the timer ridge. I take it you've checked it out and found problems.
BTW, will you be at Chickasha? If so, hope to see you there. We can see who can tell the biggest whoppers about our Ts. ;^)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Longbranch,WA on Thursday, March 10, 2016 - 12:49 pm:

I have a copy of an original Ford timing cover centering gauge which K R Wilson also copied - the little one doesn't do much IMO !

Not going to make Chickasha this year with the "Big Move" & all - going to need some time to re-group & play catch up with my clients that have been sooo patient !


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Thursday, March 10, 2016 - 04:17 pm:

I didn't realize the small ring isn't concentric. I think the tool in the picture came with a bunch of auction stuff. I guess I'd better make my own tool to fit the outer ring.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Glen Chaffin on Thursday, March 10, 2016 - 05:57 pm:

I can't believe that the center hole isn't concentric with the timer ring. Why wouldn't it be?. The timing cover is held concentric with the camshaft by the 7 mounting bolts and crank shaft. You really cannot move it much from that position so why worry about it? It's a Model T not a race car. Close is good enough.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Pat Kelly Montana on Thursday, March 10, 2016 - 06:14 pm:

I noticed that my modern cam seal doesn't run centered on the cam. I made a centering tool using the large ring and camshaft as center. The center hole is not exactly centered. No big deal with a felt seal but the modern seal is off a little. PK


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Harper - Keene, NH on Thursday, March 10, 2016 - 09:47 pm:

Hi Steve,

I had a small pulley kicking around and one day it came to hand and I realized that it was just the right size to use as a centering tool. A few minutes in the lathe to open the shaft hole to fit the camshaft and I had a tool that works well.



Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Travis E. Towle on Friday, March 11, 2016 - 01:52 pm:

Did you ever find out if the crank gear and timing gear are supposed to line up equal? 2nd photo down where they don't line up on the front?


Travis
Topeka, Kansas
785-408-3409


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Lloyde Eckley on Saturday, March 12, 2016 - 03:01 pm:

is it just me or is your crank gear made wrong? The gear tooth should be lined up with the key way. Looks like it is off some and then you had to pull this gear out on the crank also??


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Duey_C on Sunday, March 13, 2016 - 04:54 pm:

The dizzy I put on came with an alignment tool, for the inner hole Like Mr. Jelf's.
Just did some rinky-dink checks with a divider and I'd say they're quite concentric.
Nice "line up" tool Bill! I likes!
Lorenzo, glad you got it sorted out. :-)


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