Patina finish

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: Patina finish
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Mays on Thursday, February 04, 2016 - 06:25 pm:

Several months ago I read a post here where a T owner painted/coated/whatever, his unpainted T with "boiled linseed oil"---I think that's what he used. The T he finished that way really looked good, at least it did to me. Any comments on how that was done---brushed, sprayed or what? How much material is needed and how is it prepared? If anyone has a better suggestion on how to get the same result I'd appreciate it The attached picture of the '16 is what I want to get running but do the mechanical only. I have already replaced the old wheels and getting ready to pull the engine. Thanks




(Message edited by adminchris on February 04, 2016)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By bob middleton on Thursday, February 04, 2016 - 07:06 pm:

I used Matt clear coat add just touch of flat black
Gives nice paint surface just lightly wet sand and wipe with prep spray done. Boiled linseed oil takes forever to cure.

(Message edited by adminchris on February 04, 2016)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mitch Owen on Thursday, February 04, 2016 - 08:00 pm:

You might give ATF a try, worked well for me.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chad Marchees _____Tax Capital, NY on Thursday, February 04, 2016 - 08:15 pm:

John, It might have been Ron from Mass and his Doodlebugs. He turned me on to the boiled linseed oil mixed with mineral spirits. It actually works great and in my opinion as my Doodlebug sits outdoors, works and lasts longer than ATF which I had been using. It is simply brushed on, let soak in for 15-30 minutes, and excess buffed off. 2 parts linseed oil, 1 part mineral spirits.

Like any oil, it may have some tackiness when it dries. I can tell you if you brush it on during a hot day in the sun, you may not have to buff off the excess as it will bake on. Conversely, if you put some on say in your workshop and forget to buff it off, it will be tacky--and attract everything dust wise to it--don't ask me how I know.

It turns the parts a nice deep brown color. Here are the skis I did, before and after. You can see the color change.




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Mays on Thursday, February 04, 2016 - 08:31 pm:

Thanks Chad. That finish is exactly what I was thinking about. Not quite ready to put it one but will wait for a hot day----here in Texas that won't be too long.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chad Marchees _____Tax Capital, NY on Thursday, February 04, 2016 - 08:45 pm:

John, In my opinion, a day the parts can bake in the sun is best, but after 15-20 minutes, I would still attempt to buff off the excess. You may find it is all dry, and that is fine, but better safe than sorry if there are still any damp spots.

BTW, to answer your PM question, it is Boiled Linseed oil. Both it and the mineral spirits are commonly available at Home centers (Home Depot / Lowes) and hardware stores.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Burger in Spokane on Thursday, February 04, 2016 - 09:14 pm:

Linseed oil will never dry. Thusly, it was boiled. This caused a chemical change that
allowed the oil to dry. Today, "boiled" linseed oil is not boiled at all, rather, it has a drying
agent added to it that pushes it past the perm-tacky stage. Adding paint thinner/mineral
spirits only makes it dry that much better.

Few today realize how much linseed oil was used back in the day as a preservative for
shingled roofs, barn siding, tools, wagons, you name it. It was common to color it up
with iron oxides to get "barn red" and graphite to get a charcoal/black. I use it for all
sorts of stuff. Currently building a fairly accurate half-scale bobber caboose for a client,
to be used as a playhouse for the grandkids. I have mixed up GALLONS of the stuff to
get a good, "period" look that will weather for years and can be maintained easily.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Mays on Thursday, February 04, 2016 - 09:59 pm:

Thanks. It's a good day when you learn something new. I'll wait until it gets hotter here, and as I said above, here in Texas that won't be long. Sure appreciate the help.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Justin H. - Western PA on Thursday, February 04, 2016 - 10:20 pm:

Below is an excerpt from the website www.solventfreepaint.com regarding boiled linseed oil and linseed oil paint:

"What is "boiled" linseed oil and linseed oil paint?

Linseed oil paint is a collective name for many different products using linseed oil as a binding agent. Since the definition of linseed oil and linseed oil paint is loose, it includes many different kinds of products, creating much confusion for the consumer. Ironically, with all of our modern technology, it is in the knowledge of traditional methods that we find our best quality products.

Allback linseed oil and linseed oil paint is made from cold pressed flax seed grown in a northern, colder climate. The product is 100% Organic. The cold pressed oil contains about 30% protein that is removed in a cleaning process. The removal of the protein is crucial for preventing mold and mildew. When the protein is removed, the oil can be boiled and sterilized. This is contrary to the linseed oil products available in most paint stores. These products are NOT actually boiled even though they are labeled "boiled". Linseed oil that has the protein cannot be boiled, it is technically impossible (the oil will become explosive when heated.)

If the linseed oil is not boiled and sterilized it does not dry. Substantial amounts of chemical driers have to then be added to these "unclean" linseed oil products. The Allback linseed oil and paint is completely free from any chemical driers and dries naturally within a few days. You can apply the linseed oil paint every 24 hours at about 70 degrees ambient temperature. The longer drying time is one of the reasons why linseed oil paint is so durable and flexible after it is dry. It will not buckle or crack. Linseed oil paint "moves" with the material it is painted on (wood, for example, moves substantially during seasonal changes.)"


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Val Soupios on Thursday, February 04, 2016 - 10:40 pm:

This has been very interesting to me because I have a car that has a wooden body and was painted in a colored varnish in 1907. The finish is checked and cracked and raw wood is visible in some spots so I am trying to figure out how to seal the body without causing the remaining finish to be softened and possibly lift up. I also don't want a finish with any appreciable shine. I was wondering if the Allback boiled linseed oil and mineral spirits would work over the varnish paint. Has anyone ever used it for what I am hoping to do and if so what was the result?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Friday, February 05, 2016 - 02:27 am:

Safety Alert:

Not trying to be a "killjoy" here, but to add a bit to all the good boiled linseed oil information provided by Burger and Justin, be aware of the spontaneous combustion hazard in connection with the use of boiled linseed oil. Lots of safety info on the internet in this regard, and it would be a few minutes well spent to read up on the subject. I need to review also, however if I'm not mistaken, the spontaneous combustion hazard is usually from carelessness in leaving rags laying around that are contaminated with boiled linseed oil. This isn't really what you'd call a "freak thing",....it really does happen guys,.....FWIW,......harold


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom Strickling on Friday, February 05, 2016 - 08:37 am:

We should all have approved fire proof safety containers for our oily rags etc. Rags with linseed oil are very susceptible to spontaneous combustion. Spend the extra money for an approved safety can.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Mays on Friday, February 05, 2016 - 08:57 am:

One more question: What is the mixture ratio between Boiled Linseed Oil and Mineral Spirits? Are they mixed 50/50 or what? Also, I understand the concern about fire safety, good idea to be very careful. Thanks


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron in Central Massachusetts on Friday, February 05, 2016 - 09:00 am:

John,

Your touring is a perfect candidate for a linseed finish - will look spectacular when you're done. As Chad said, I use a 2-1 boiled linseed oil/mineral spirit mixture. I paint it on with a chip brush, let it sit for 2-3 hours and then wipe the excess off with old terry cloth rags (the nap of the rag gets down into rust pits). Cannot emphasize enough how important it is to wipe off the excess. If you don't you will have a gummy mess on your hands for weeks to come.

The combustion issue Harold mentions is valid and has to do with rags. Best way to avoid is to submerge all your application and wiping items in a tub of water after you're done with them - then dispose of permanently.

Everything pictured below was finished in linseed. Best part of it (besides being cheap and durable) is touch up. Put a scratch in a linseed-finished panel while wrenching on something? Just dab a little mixture on it, wipe away and the scratch is gone. MUCH better (and authentic) than a clear coat.

Everything pictured below was finished in the boiled linseed/mineral spirit mixture.





Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Mays on Friday, February 05, 2016 - 09:08 am:

Thanks Ron, appreciate that. Sure do like this forum----thanks for the help.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron in Central Massachusetts on Friday, February 05, 2016 - 09:13 am:

John - here is my "precision" mixture for the finish:

I take an empty Snapple bottle and fill it 3/4s full of boiled linseed oil. I then fill the remainder with mineral spirits and shake. I then drop a chip brush in it and cap it (always have a bottle on the shelf for small parts and touchups). It spreads thin and the more you can stretch it with the brush, the less excess you are wiping away later.

The doodlebug pictured above took 1.5 Snapple bottles to complete (not including the spokes which were really dry and ate up a bottle for 4 wheels) - that includes the cowl, hood halves, frame, rear axle, front axle - everything.

The power unit took 3/4s a bottle.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Mays on Friday, February 05, 2016 - 10:48 am:

Thanks Ron,


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ed Saniewski Denville NJ on Friday, February 05, 2016 - 11:25 am:

I used old kerosene from my parts cleaner. Brushed it on, then after a while, rubbed it in with a rag. Give it a few days, then applied Johnson paste wax . It gives it a great look, no too shiny.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Carlton on Friday, February 05, 2016 - 11:26 am:

You nailed the look, Ron. Nice work!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By paul iverson freeport ill. on Friday, February 05, 2016 - 11:38 am:

thats very interesting info, on our 16 it was brushed with oil by my dad in 1942 were the oil stayed on the paint is still on it. I have not tryed to clean it only reoiled spots. anyone have any ideas? I dont want to hurt whats left of the old flaking paint. I like it like it is, but if it could be cleaned with out damage it might look better also if you touch car it gets your cloths dirty


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron in Central Massachusetts on Friday, February 05, 2016 - 11:51 am:

Thanks Jim! More people at shows and pulls ask about the finish, specifically, "what brand clear coat was used?" Takes a while to convince some of them it's not clear coated.

Val - on the cowl of the doodlebug under the name "Celtic Rust" you can see some white-ish discoloration. That is the cracked and checked remnants of the original paint, which appears to have been Phoenix Brown. The linseed oil/mineral spirits finish I applied had no adverse effect on that paint. This being said, because it is paint on steel, there is really no opportunity for the finish to seep behind the pain and lift it off (as there might be if it was old paint on wood). There is some trace of black lacquer on the spokes, along with some remnants of later paint applied. I applied a lot of the mixture to those spokes and, so far, have observed no loss of paint (but the hickory on the spokes is probably a lot more dense than the wood on your body). I'd test some on a small area that is not noticeable and see what happens.

Ed - am restoring a T-based saw rig right now. I'm going to try your kerosene/Johnson wax finish on a part or two and see how that looks.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron in Central Massachusetts on Friday, February 05, 2016 - 11:59 am:

Original paint traces on the radiator shell and coil box of the power unit. Both treated with the linseed oil/mineral spirit mixture without adverse impact to original paint.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Darel J. Leipold on Friday, February 05, 2016 - 03:28 pm:

Jonnny Cash's Home fire as follows. Note use of linseed oil.

In June 2005, Cash's lakeside home on Caudill Drive in Hendersonville was put up for sale by his estate. In January 2006, the house was sold to Bee Gees vocalist Barry Gibb and wife Linda and titled to their Florida limited liability company for $2.3 million. The listing agent was Cash's younger brother, Tommy. On April 10, 2007, during a major restoration of the property by the new owner, Cash's home was accidentally destroyed in a spontaneous combustion-ignited fire caused by workers using linseed oil products.[83]


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Burger in Spokane on Friday, February 05, 2016 - 03:38 pm:

My used rags go in the wood stove when I am done with them.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron in Central Massachusetts on Friday, February 05, 2016 - 04:14 pm:

Got it Darel - thanks.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Val Soupios on Friday, February 05, 2016 - 05:37 pm:

Thanks Ron that information really helps. I will try it on an inconspicuous part of the seat riser and see what happens.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Philip Berg on Friday, February 05, 2016 - 07:22 pm:

1916 Ford model T Coupelet

I think my coupelet will get the linseed treatment this summer.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chad Marchees _____Tax Capital, NY on Friday, February 05, 2016 - 07:27 pm:

Ron / others, In an effort to make the bottom of the skis slipperier, I used the Johnsons paste wax on the bottoms. It had no adverse effect on the color the linseed oil treatment added, and there was no white residue that you normally find with automotive type waxes. To me it was a win win gaining a little extra protection. It does add a little more sheen though, but noting too drastic in my opinion. Hard to capture the results on pictures, my best advice is try it on a small spot first.


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