Can you help identify the year of this model T?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: Can you help identify the year of this model T?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Koch on Friday, February 05, 2016 - 11:35 am:

This photo comes from my Grandma's collection. She passed many years ago and with her gone we have no way of knowing any history of this photo. I believe this to be a 1922 ish model T? And, by the looks of the truck it had seen years of service. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks, Jim Grandma B


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Eagle Idaho Falls on Friday, February 05, 2016 - 11:50 am:

Looks like '23 '24 or '25 to me.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Layden Butler on Friday, February 05, 2016 - 01:12 pm:

With 30x 3 1/2 tires probably 1923-4


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John C Codman on Friday, February 05, 2016 - 02:36 pm:

Maumee Ave seems as if it's Ohio. The truck is filthy. A lot of wood and coal used in those days. Plumbing and heating was an even dirtier job then it is now - and it isn't clean now!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Friday, February 05, 2016 - 02:57 pm:

Some people's equipment won't fit that picture to their screens. Here's a smaller version for those folks.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Koch on Friday, February 05, 2016 - 07:46 pm:

Thanks Steve for the smaller picture. John, Maumee Ave. is in Fort Wayne, Ind. Just down the road from where my Grandma spent her whole life in New Haven, Ind.

Thanks for all of your thoughts guys! Btw, that's my Grandma seated with an unknown friend. She passed from Alzheimers in the late 80's and my Mom has had it for a few years now. Wish I could go back and ask a lot of questions. But, who knew...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Friday, February 05, 2016 - 08:46 pm:

Would the single rear window in the top be a 1925 sign, or is the top a replacement?

I'm also curious about the side curtains, it looks like the door has some type of framing for the curtain, I thought the pin that held the curtain in the door came with the improved 1926 models - so would this side curtain design for a pre improved runabout be aftermarket then?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Friday, February 05, 2016 - 09:04 pm:

Jim,

When I started typing this post I was in agreement with Layden that the car was more likely a 1923-24. But the more I looked at photos and information, the more I now believe we do not have enough information to say it is more likely to be a 1923, or 1924, or 1925. We do know from the body style (the type of turtle deck/trunk, type of body) that it has to be a 1923-1925 model year Ford runabout.

From that angle a 1923, 1924, 1925 would look very very similar -- same trunk, same basic curves from the doors back. But the cowl and hood were a little lower on the 1923 style. But we cannot see the shape of the cowl or hood. If you run across another photo of the car, especially if it is from the front that would be a great help in narrowing the model year down.

Note a 1923 model year car similar to your photo with the slanting windshield and the top bows could have been produced as early a Nov 1922 (ref page 308 of Bruce McCalley's book "Model T Ford" also on the online encyclopedia at: http://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/1923.htm look at the paragraph "Major Model Year Features"

The two individual pane rear windows in the convertible top went to a single rectangular opening late in 1925. But the top in the photo appears to be much newer than the rest of the car. Additionally to me, the rear window appears to be a little different shape than the ones Ford originally supplied. I.e. the Ford windows were proportionally longer and not as tall -- at least to me. But that could just be the angle of the photo. If the top had been original to the car that single rear window frame would indicate it was a late 1925 -- but I do not think that top was original to the car.

Note on page 341 of Bruce's book he comments about the front fender bead that ran outside the splash apron on the 1917-1924 cars and that for the 1925 cars ran under the splash apron. [Note the 6th edition of the MTFCI Judging Standards say that both styles of fenders were used during 1925 production (that is model year not calendar year). I looked at some of the factory photos of the 1925 pickup truck taken on Dec 12, 1924 which would be a 1925 model year.



It has the bead on the front fender running around the splash apron (the 1925 pickup with the railroad oil tanker cars in the back ground. See page 366 of Bruce's book (the photo is not cropped as much on page 170 of Leslie R. Henry's "Model T Ford" were we can easily see the date is 12-12-24)).

In your photo, I have drawn an arrow to what I believe is that bead running outside the splash apron.





But that could still be a 1925 model year as shown by the 12-12-24 photo. That same roadster pickup photo has the 30 x 3 1/2 wheels rather than the 21 inch balloon tires. So without some other information / photos I don't think we can narrow it down more than 1923-1925 Model year Model T Ford Runabout that would have been manufactured from around Nov 1922 up to the introduction of the 1926 models in Aug 1925.

And the reason it is not a 1922 or earlier car, is the top, slant windshield (assumes a USA car as Canadian T's went to a similar style top and slant windshield earlier than Ford USA), rear deck, etc.

Thank you for sharing your photo with us.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Friday, February 05, 2016 - 09:17 pm:

Roger,

I would think any sort of side curtain framing would have been an accessory. The 1925 doors on on Steve Coniff's Jul 15, 1925 did not have any sort of holder for a pin etc. to fit into. See page 363 of Bruce's book for an excellent photo of the passenger door.

Below is the top from the same photo of the 12-12-24 Roadster pickup.

From the look of the top compared to the car in Jim's photo, I believe the top has been replaced. Is the rear window the correct shape/size for a 1925 top -- I cannot really tell. It doesn't look the same to me -- but again the angle of the photo may make it look that way. As stated above if the top was originally from the Ford factory on that car -- it would indicate a later 1925 rather than a 1923 or 1924.

I still believe we need some additional photos or information to be able to pin it down to a specific year model. But it has been fun thinking about it.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Trent Boggess on Saturday, February 06, 2016 - 10:32 am:

The current hypothesis (Bruce always got a kick whenever I used that term. He would refer to it as one of Trent's hippopotamus's) is that the change from two small rectangular rear windows in the top's rear curtain to one large rear window occurred when the Ford accessory rear mirror was introduced in 1925.

I have not been able to find evidence that supports or disproves that "hippopotamus's, yet, but it does make sense.

Respectfully Submitted,

Trent Boggess


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith, Lomita, California on Saturday, February 06, 2016 - 11:18 am:

Unless the top has been replaced, it must be a '25.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Saturday, February 06, 2016 - 12:14 pm:

Trent,

By any chance do you have an approximate date when the accessory rear view mirror was offered by Ford? If so we may be able to correlate that with the change to the single rear window (or not). Maybe even move the hippopotamus to become an accepted fact or disprove it if that is appropriate?

Larry,

Looking at the top compared to the body I'm 90% sure the top has been replaced. What do you think about the newer looking top verses the beat up looking car?

And it could have been replaced with the same style or not.

And is the rear window the same shape and size as those supplied by Ford? I suspect you have the original size rear window frame in your 1925 pickup (and many of us would think that Original Smith would know if it was or was not original). If so and if you can easily get to it, you may be able to look at your T from the same angle the photo was taken. Does the window frame look the same to you or is the rear window in Jim's photo different?

But yes, if the top came from the factory on that car, I agree it would have been a 1925. (Note we know that the 12-12-24 photos of the 1925 pickup show the single window style top).

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


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