The EP registration is from Montgomeryshire, Wales. This registration was used from 1903 to 1947. The bus was probably several years old when this picture was taken as the truck behind is an early 30's Dagenham built Ford Forward Control.
I think that's a TT chassis. The rear tires appear bigger and it looks like they have 6 lugs. If that's true then this is the first one I've seen with 1926/27 car front fenders.
What do you guys say???? Am I correct? How do you think it would it come to have these fenders?
I agree with you that the front fenders appear to be 1926-27 style Improved car fenders.
I also agree that the rear wheels appear larger than the 21 inch demountable balloon front wheels. That most likely means a TT chassis.
Note while the front fenders appear to be 1926-27 the hood remains the standard 1924-1927 Ton Truck with 6 louvers on the side rather than the larger hood with many louvers on the 1926-27 hoods.
So how did a Ton Truck over there wind up with the improved passenger car fenders rather than the standard Ton Truck fenders used 1924-1927? Good question. Clearly they could have had an accident and they replaced both front fenders and took the opportunity to use the later fenders (would require some modification for mounting them – but could be done) and headlights & bar from a improved car.
Or perhaps it was a prototype produced by Ford of England or Ireland? On page 405 of Bruce McCalley’s book, he shows a photo of a closed cab Model T Truck with the 1926-27 improved car front fenders and what appears to be the 1926-27 improved car hood. He also comments that it may have been a prototype which never reached production. And noted that the cab did not match the TT or the later AA cabs.
Or perhaps someone used a frame extensions to convert the standard T to a Ton truck? We know some of the chain drive extensions were sold in the UK (see the BAICO (British American Import Company) conversion at: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/257047/295056.html?1340257869 . But that was a chain drive and the Bus photo is NOT a chain drive. Perhaps at least one of the T to Ton Truck conversions sold in England did NOT use a chain drive? I don't know if they did or did not have any of those in England but a non-chain drive USA version is called a Jewett is shown at: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/331880/385324.html?1379262560 .
And then the possibility exists that the Ford did not produce that truck. On page 205 of “The English Model T Ford Book” they mention that Ford production stopped at Trafford Park on 20 Aug 1927. But the next day the Directors of H & J Quick Ltd, Manchester main Ford Dealers bought up all the parts for Model Ts they could find and continued to assemble T vehicles. The chassis were fitted with locally produced bodies. Records do not exist of what style vehicles were produced. But they believe many of them would have been vans and trucks. Clearly they could have and would have used the parts they had available to assemble the chassis.
And there are probably some other possibilities. Any thoughts on that? Wouldn’t it fun to know how it really happened?
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Interesting picture. As James writes, it's a Montgomery number. EP6280 was a 1935 Austin Ruby, and they ended, presumably with EP9999 in 1947 (but few if any numbers were allocated during WWII). The rate of issue will have been slow to start with, but accelerated in the 20s and 30s.
I suspect that EP1673 was issued earlier than 1926.
The bus is clearly a very carefully constructed vehicle with, as already said, 1926 fenders, headlamp bar and radiator. I do think it is a TT underneath though. I think it has 6-stud rear wheels.
The photo has to be at least mid-thirties, and maybe just post WWII (I haven't found out anything about the truck behind), and the bus looks 'new'. Another internet site says the photo is 1950.
Montgomery is a very rural fairly remote county on the Welsh border.
This could be a locally-assembled bus built on a TT from about 1920, using parts from a 26 car put together immediately after WWII when new cars and trucks were very hard to get, and money was short. The clothing looks like post-war austerity too.
(And note the cases stacked up the house window, top left!)
I have a friend who is 92 years young. He tells about his Daddy driving a 1923 Model T schoolbus. I wish I had pictures to post of it.
I thought there was something familiar about that bus. It was (maybe is) owned by Lord Montagu of Beaulieu - founder of the big museum there.
This photo must be 40 years old. Lord M died last year.
My Dad passed a couple of decades ago but he got me into Model T Fords, he drove for a doctor in Salford England in 1926. When i was a child we had Fords and he told me the story of Quicks buying up the T parts from the Ford factory in Trafford Park, which was quite close to where we lived. Henry Ford visited the plant by boat which sailed from the Detroit area , across the pond and then up the Manchester Ship Canal to the Trafford Park plant. Quicks are still Ford dealers close to the now closed dock area.
Tony -- small world -- that your Dad used to tell you that story about Quicks buying up the T parts.
Chris -- thanks for locating the better photo and more history. From the photo you posted it is clearly looks like a TT chassis.
Looking closer, I think the body may be designed so you can lift off the top half of the body. Similar to the idea shown in a photo of a Omnibus body on a car chassis. Thanks to Mike Walker for posting that previously. Probably need several folks to lift that one -- if it was removable.
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The bus is a 1921 Ford TT fitted with a body made by Ruston & Hornsby, of Lincoln. It was supplied new to Jones Brothers of Welshpool and was still with them in 1950. It has a body held together by bolts and wing nuts which can be dismantled - leaving a truck body. At one time it was in the National Motor Museum at Beaulieu but is now privately owned. It was noted on the London to Brighton Commercial Vehicle Run in Msy 2011.
Thank you so much for the additional information. I always like the looks of your Bordelaise pickup bodied T on your profile page. The T and TT was often adapted to the local area where ever it went.
If the Bus was built in 1921 it clearly would not have started off with the 1926-27 style fenders and headlight bar. So those items would have been replaced later. With the brass (plated?) radiator shell and headlight rims, I suspect those items and perhaps the fenders were added when the bus was restored? But that is just a guess.
And eventually it would be good to pass on any additional information to the web site at: http://www.classicbuses.co.uk/1961.html that also includes that 1921 bus in the list of Busses that survived or were restored. It was included in a list originally published in 1961 and the web site listed the status of the busses 50 years later.
If anyone has additional photos -- please share them.
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The photo that Jay posted was taken in 1950, so I doubt if the bus was restored then. Possibly the later wings are the result of an accident? The bus was never owned by the National Motor Museum, it was on loan to them.
My 1923 Ford T pick up has been sold, sadly. I could never get it to run properly and there was not sufficient technical support in France to help. Exhausted every affordable angle.
Thank you for the update.
I'm sorry to hear you were not able to get the engine to run properly in your pickup. Sometimes the problems are hard to find especially if they are intermittent.
Of course you never know -- there may be another T in your future? Perhaps a T that is already sorted out and running well? Once you play with them, they are often very addictive.
And you and everyone else are always welcome here on the forum. Ownership is not a requirement. Actually I'm not sure ownership is the right word. My cars have already gone through several owners including my Dad before they came to my garage. And someday I will depart and they will go on to other garages. Maybe "steward" is a better description?
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