EPA Planning to outlaw Model T racers

Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration
Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: EPA Planning to outlaw Model T racers
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Friday, February 12, 2016 - 09:23 am:

The Obama administration in its final lame duck year is attempting to strip away your right to own a race car. The proposed rule (not a law made by Congress or voted on by anyone) provides the federal government the ability to confiscate any non - compliant vehicle.

The administration is swamping us with regulations intended to prohibit anything that does not get approved by a beaurocrat in Washington. It is an assault on our liberties and freedom by a tyrannical despotic ruler.

For the good of our hobby, don't vote for the evil folks who are doing this to us. Please!

More here:

https://www.sema.org/news/2016/02/08/epa-seeks-to-prohibit-conversion-of-vehicle s-into-racecars

Tell the EPA to Withdraw Its Proposal to Prohibit the Conversion of Vehicles Into Racecars

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
February 8, 2016

Media inquiries contact: Della Domingo
909-978-6723
dellad@sema.org

EPA SEEKS TO PROHIBIT CONVERSION OF VEHICLES INTO RACECARS
-- SEMA to Oppose Action as Threat to Modified Racecars and Parts Suppliers --

Washington, DC (February 8, 2016) – The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) has proposed a regulation to prohibit conversion of vehicles originally designed for on-road use into racecars. The regulation would also make the sale of certain products for use on such vehicles illegal. The proposed regulation was contained within a non-related proposed regulation entitled “Greenhouse Gas Emissions and Fuel Efficiency Standards for Medium- and Heavy-Duty Engines and Vehicles—Phase 2.”

The regulation would impact all vehicle types, including the sports cars, sedans and hatch-backs commonly converted strictly for use at the track. While the Clean Air Act prohibits certain modifications to motor vehicles, it is clear that vehicles built or modified for racing, and not used on the streets, are not the “motor vehicles” that Congress intended to regulate.

“This proposed regulation represents overreaching by the agency, runs contrary to the law and defies decades of racing activity where EPA has acknowledged and allowed conversion of vehicles,” said SEMA President and CEO Chris Kersting. “Congress did not intend the original Clean Air Act to extend to vehicles modified for racing and has re-enforced that intent on more than one occasion.”

SEMA submitted comments in opposition to the regulation and met with the EPA to confirm the agency’s intentions. The EPA indicated that the regulation would prohibit conversion of vehicles into racecars and make the sale of certain emissions-related parts for use on converted vehicles illegal. Working with other affected organizations, including those representing legions of professional and hobbyist racers and fans, SEMA will continue to oppose the regulation through the administrative process and will seek congressional support and judicial intervention as necessary.

The EPA has indicated it expects to publish final regulations by July 2016.

About SEMA
SEMA, the Specialty Equipment Market Association founded in 1963, represents the $36 billion specialty automotive industry of 6,633 member-companies. It is the authoritative source for research, data, trends and market growth information for the specialty auto parts industry. The industry provides appearance, performance, comfort, convenience and technology products for passenger and recreational vehicles. For more information, contact SEMA at 1575 S. Valley Vista Dr., Diamond Bar, CA 91765, tel: 909-610-2030, or visit www.sema.org.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jay - In Northern California on Friday, February 12, 2016 - 09:41 am:

Ah yes, It looks the Inmates at the nut house are running the place!
I hear that next the enviro-nazi EPA is going to tax foods that produce flatulents because they contribute to green house gases.

These people need to be Coal Tarred and Endangered Species feathered and run out of town in a Gas Guzzling SUV! :-)



Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Friday, February 12, 2016 - 09:44 am:

This doesn't surprise me.
It is typical "progressive" crap aimed at controlling every part of our lives.

I am currently trying to read Dinesh D'Sousa's book Stealing America but am having a hard time getting thru it.
If I read it in the morning my day is ruined.
If I read it at night I can't sleep.

This might be political but it is T related.
Follow Royce's advice.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marv Konrad (Green Bay Area) on Friday, February 12, 2016 - 12:25 pm:

This seems akin to wanting to repeal our rights with the 2nd Amendment.....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Solak, Chicago, IL area on Friday, February 12, 2016 - 01:15 pm:

http://www.roadandtrack.com/motorsports/news/a28135/heres-what-the-epas-track-ca r-proposal-actually-means/

Another view of the issue.

Essentially, EPA doesn't want people defeating emissions controls for cars rolling around on the streets.

"From this, it sure sounds like (as we stated above) the EPA doesn't plan on confiscating your trailered, track-only race vehicle—only that, as has been the case since emissions regulation began, you're breaking the law if you remove federally-mandated emissions controls from your street-driven car."


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marv Konrad (Green Bay Area) on Friday, February 12, 2016 - 01:24 pm:

-Bob- Have read the article in your link... Unless I missed something, there is nothing saying they couldn't apply their rules to the hobbyist - someone who likes to tinker under the hood, build-their-own, or even to drive the 'station wagon' to race at the drag strip! Methinks SEMA is right for sounding the alarm!!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Friday, February 12, 2016 - 03:43 pm:

It seems to me, that Royce rarely comments on political OT threads. I cannot recall that he has EVER started one?!

This could be one of the seven signs of the coming of the end?

Naw. I don't see any sign of a grass roots rising into a viable third party to represent the middle eighty percent of the people that matter most.

Shut-up Sheldon!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George John Drobnock on Friday, February 12, 2016 - 03:46 pm:

The propaganda is out there.

No, the EPA isn’t making it illegal to turn an old car into a race car
Buried in a 629-page report, the EPA raises dander, but racers need not worry.

http://arstechnica.com/cars/2016/02/no-the-epa-isnt-making-it-illegal-to-turn-an -old-car-into-a-race-car/

The EPA's Laura Allen released the following statement to try to clarify the agency's position: "People may use EPA-certified motor vehicles for competition, but to protect public health from air pollution, the Clean Air Act has—since its inception—specifically prohibited tampering with or defeating the emission control systems on those vehicles. The proposed regulation that SEMA has commented on does not change this long-standing law or approach."


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Friday, February 12, 2016 - 04:08 pm:

So MS Allen expects racers to run full emission equipment? That hardly makes this proposed rule innocuous, indeed it totally confirms what SEMA is saying.

Hopefully George your response is intended to be tongue in cheek?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James J. Lyons III - West Virginia on Friday, February 12, 2016 - 04:22 pm:

The EPA is just another overly burdensome regulatory commission that was created outside of constitutional law. When you consider that one volcanic eruption emits more greenhouse gas than mankind has since it's beginning, you can understand that you're simply being hosed.. it's all about money. The whole gaggle needs to go to the stockade. And you can believe right now, that the government has no interest in your rights and liberty under the Constitution. That's why Trump - the bonehead idiot that he is - needs to be elected.... simply to destroy the "establishment" politician hierarchy. Makes me wretch.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Friday, February 12, 2016 - 04:29 pm:

Unfortunately, the political parties use what they call a "platform". The same politicians who support the above named legislation, also support taking away the money from the wealthy and giving it to the poor. There are many more poor than there are wealthy, so the same politicians get elected over and over. The only way to fix this type of thing is to abolish political parties. Our representatives should represent the voters of their districts. That means there will be no more "platforms". Why should we support a whole package if we only like one part of it? Likewise why should we reject the whole package because we dislike one part of it?
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jack Daron - Brownsburg IN on Friday, February 12, 2016 - 04:54 pm:

Barring Lawyers from serving in any Gov.office other than a Judgeship would be a good step. Talk about conflict of interest...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Redelman, Kouts, IN on Friday, February 12, 2016 - 05:32 pm:

This is beyond me how these people got elected. Pet.Signed and forwarded. Vote them out of office.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Friday, February 12, 2016 - 06:44 pm:

We absolutely NEED an EPA. Otherwise, plating shops (and many other companies large and small) would still be dumping their toxic chemicals into local creeks where children play.

We do NOT need what we have.

This is why we need a real third party to truly represent the eighty percent in the middle. We do not need anybody pulling on heartstrings to "save the weakest" while in actuality hiding in smoke-filled-rooms only enriching the wealthiest.

Our way of life currently depends upon it.
And the survival of our beloved model Ts depends in turn on us.
Drive carefully, and enjoy.
Wayne Sheldon


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rick Goelz-Knoxville,TN on Friday, February 12, 2016 - 07:32 pm:

Unless the model T had emission controls this will have no effect.

Rick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jay - In Northern California on Friday, February 12, 2016 - 08:34 pm:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Derek Kiefer - Mantorville, MN on Friday, February 12, 2016 - 09:05 pm:

I must respectfully disagree Wayne, the EPA is not, nor has it ever been necessary. Environmental laws can be created and enforced without them by elected representatives at both State and Federal level. As it is with the EPA, the people creating and enforcing these laws are not elected, bear no consequences for overreach, and there is no recourse for the public to overturn their unjust laws.

It's no different than the Department of Education. To suggest abolishing it, most people automatically jump to the "but who would educate our children" argument, however, most everyone on this forum attended school long before the Department of Education even existed. (not trying to start an education debate, just using it as an example)

Early emissions controls started BEFORE the EPA existed. SMOG pumps and PCV valves were in use in the 60s. California had its own stricter emissions laws, all possible without the existence of the EPA.

Environmental laws are necessary, but a Federal agency that can make and enforce its own laws without any accountability to the public leads to things like this where they create new laws just to justify their own existence.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jay - In Northern California on Friday, February 12, 2016 - 09:13 pm:

Derek, I concur with every syllable of what your saying my friend!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Friday, February 12, 2016 - 09:40 pm:

Derek K and Jay, And I will respectfully say, that you are very right! And I am not back-pedaling. This is a case where there are a dozen ways to do the right thing, and a hundred ways to do it wrong!
We do need environmental protections. We do NOT need tons of bad laws with hidden agendas buried inside in ANY of our regulations. We do NOT need corruption in our police, or any other legal enforcement. And we certainly do NOT need corruption in any level of our lawmakers or our president.
What we have, simply put, is very sad.
Corruption has been with mankind ever since he began walking upright. What we have today is as bad as it has ever gotten.
Wayne Sheldon


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Friday, February 12, 2016 - 11:06 pm:

well the problem is you give a inch to the devils they will find a way to take a mile and smile as they do it.

I could go on a rant 3 pages long but it amounts to this. A few simple basic laws could be passed written similar to the 10 commandments and if properly enforced there would be little to no problems.
No one in their right mind goes around passing gas or dumping old oil out deliberately to ruin our environment. Most emissions devices get removed or unhooked because the dam- things tear up and cost a mint to replace that some folks can't afford.
Until import parts became popular, a smog pump cost as much as some cars were worth when they locked up.That is actually 1 of the main parts to fail on the Yugos was the smog system.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By bob middleton on Friday, February 12, 2016 - 11:28 pm:

From what I read out of this EPA trying to keep folks from bypassing emission controls.
I hope it gets those cars folks are claiming are classics and driving them I mean 1980 motor home with classic plates because it won't pass smog
Sad thing is brain dead bureaucrats will blanket all cars antiques rods customs and classics
No matter what we need oppose it except cars newer then 72 when EPA started it thing


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Saturday, February 13, 2016 - 09:49 am:

Please sign the petition here:

Take the next step and gather support for it by sharing this petition on Twitter and Facebook, or by sharing a link to this petition:

http://wh.gov/ifXr1


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George John Drobnock on Saturday, February 13, 2016 - 09:57 am:

This whole issue is to be followed. The EPA is making recommendations to keep the environment safe. These federal regulations are for Local and State Governments to follow. There are 50 states and 16 territories who receive federal funds. To receive the federal funds certain rules need to be followed. Those who do not want to follow the rules - fine. (Remember Flint Michigan and clean water). There are certain vehicles that are exempt form the emissions act. Yes you can retro fit your vintage vehicle with emissions equipment if you want or not (See http://www3.epa.gov/ozonedesignations/1997standards/documents/bumpDown/Memphis_T N/13TNVehicleTampering.pdf)

Or you can be in a pickle with your 1970 Ford/Chevy muscle car and not be able to drive it until you have rebuilt to emissions that were removed back when.

Reference with lots of stuff - http://www3.epa.gov/otaq/nonrdmdl.htm

http://www3.epa.gov/nonroad/

The mind set is soon these vintage cars will be relegated to a museum or scrap yard. Going to a "car show" now the majority of the "antique" cars are from the 1960's to 1970's. Not often you see some one driving an external fueled Stanley steamer or an internal combustion Cole Eight. Basely all the cars shown have some form of emission.

At someplace somewhere the Mad Max vehicles will be driven with no regard to the environment.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jay - In Northern California on Saturday, February 13, 2016 - 10:13 am:

I think I am going to burn a few tires covered in waste oil in my back yard to protest the EPA's over reach. Live free or die!:-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Saturday, February 13, 2016 - 10:13 am:

I just wish someone in government would take into account what it cost to keep that poorly designed smog crap working.

Bob, for example the 1980 motor home.Does anyone have a clue in government that motor homes are used about 3 times a year? And the harsh environment of a motor home engine compartment is no place for a naked engine to live. Much less 1 choked down with smog junk.
So let's say in theory we junk everything once the smog crap goes down hill.
What does a new motor home cost?
What does a new car cost?
Can everyone afford it? No.
That is why the smog crap gets the belts and hoses jurked loose and thrown out the woods. It is to expensive for the average Joe to keep working.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Saturday, February 13, 2016 - 06:09 pm:

Forget what a new motor home costs. Forget what a new car costs. Forget whether or not the little man can afford it.
Does the EPA or any government administrator ever consider the impact upon the environment to manufacture replacements for otherwise perfectly good cars (and motor-homes) being junked for no good reason? If these are not high on their list of considerations? They all need to be fired and lose their pensions.
It has become all about greed and who gets the money.
Every decision needs to be considered as a costs versus benefits. Costs include financial, environmental, and the needs of the many. Benefits include all of those things. Historic value and individual enjoyment are also important considerations.

I have no problem with individuals becoming wealthy. As long as they do something worthwhile to earn it. And as long as other people benefit from their efforts along the way.
A small percentage of people grabbing all the wealth, producing little and often nothing good, while bankrupting everyone else CANNOT work for long.

Wayne Sheldon


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ted Dumas on Thursday, February 18, 2016 - 10:32 pm:

Words of Wisdom to think about in the upcoming election: A small percentage of people grabbing all the wealth, producing little and often nothing good, while bankrupting everyone else CANNOT work for long.

Thanks, Wayne


Add a Message


This is a private posting area. Only registered users and moderators may post messages here.
Username:  
Password:

Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration