starts with electric ignition? starter? 1914?
I took a quick look, not much info to go on and as pointed out by Dave; What? Car looks restored but only 114 miles? Why would you mount a starter on a car with only 114 miles, maybe some 0's were dropped.
I looked at this a few hours ago. IF the ad is legitimate, the price is very fair based upon photos and recent gas/brass T sales. However. The ad is very poorly presented, and shows clearly that whoever wrote it knows very little about what they are talking about. A number of things in the ad do not add up.
(Message edited by wayne sheldon on February 13, 2016)
If that vin number is actually the engine serial number, then that motor is not the original; 1914 T's were in the six figure numbers, not seven. So I highly doubt that is has 114 "original" miles, but if the speedometer (which is incorrect) says so, it must be true!
Thought that was mine, at first
A look at the frame under the front fender shows bolt holes for much later firewall bolt holes! Buyer beware it is misrepresented in a big way!
I agree with Bill - I doubt the engine is correct. I If you look closely at the photo of the foot pedals, you can see where it appears that the lettered pedals were welded on to a later hogshead. Looks like your typical 60's era restoration where they cleared the wood components. Having said all that, it looks like the front axle is right and it appears to have the 12 rivet rear axle barely visible in one of the pics. It would be a fun car to put back to "correct" but I'd want it for less than 17K.
Engine number is 1922 that's why the electric starter. It's either a poor resto, or a very old one, that paint is horrible.
Sits on a later frame, the frame rail holes for the later side mounted fire wall supports is clearly seen in the big photo.
That black one is very reasonable and has a fantastic description compared to the red '14 also on eBay right now!
Royce, That's a nice looking car, but not at that price! Holy!
It is interesting that neither seller shows pictures of the motor or under the hood.
What's the chain on the steering column do?
Royce, Even my general curiosity did not make me open the listing for the red one. I may, or may not, later.
The black one is decent and reasonable enough for me to want to look at it even though I cannot buy anything like that these days. I do still like to look! And yes, buyer beware. It may be a bit over-priced because of how much is right or wrong with it. But decent '14s are TOUGH to find much under $17K.
Jesse L A, That chain could be any of several things. Most likely either an explosion whistle (operated off one cylinder) or a wolf whistle (operated off the intake manifold). Both are often operated by a chain that way.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2
I like the black one too. The red one has a lot of, well way too much, red paint for me. The full set of reproduction 1912 brass lamps is a really silly feature too.
Royce, I agree. Naturally the car drew lots of trophies from local "know nothing" shows looking at pretty shiny paint, but wouldn't go far in national judging I'm sure. To each his own.
OK guys we have some more pictures of the Ia. '14 and a couple of the engine now. Let's hear from our Xspurts about what is now revealed for interested bidders that can't see the car in person. He didn't show the starter but it doesn't have a generator and looks like a one piece valve cover engine. Is that a two piece drive shaft?
Looks to me like the seat covers are a little sloppy but in good condition and show little wear. The top could have been set up a bit better but is in good usable condition. The car has no aux tranny or outside brakes which would need to be added for a good touring car.
I Don't understand about the fame not being a '14 because of the extra holes so if someone that knows would explain I would appreciate it. To me that is sort of a deal breaker depending on price.
I have posted that I am looking for a nice original brass touring that is not a show car but I an make into a good touring because I need an extra seat. I really appreciate all comments from our experts.
In the early twenties Ford changed the fire wall from wood to steel. At the same time the firewall supports were mounted from the side of the chassis rather than from the cast supports from the top of the chassis. Thus two holes were added at the side of each chassis member. Ford left the holes on top, probably to allow for the use of later chassis on early cars.
Similarly the three holes to mount the battery were added in 1919. Early chassis had no need for the battery mounting, therefore no holes.
If the chassis has the side holes or battery holes, it is a later chassis....
Interesting. Clearly the seller does not know model Ts, based on his evasive answers to questions. That, in and of itself, does not make it a bad deal.
For what it is worth, I think the engine is a later one. He added some pictures. He shows the engine number. It looks like it has been altered (maybe a long time ago). It appears the last digit was obliterated, giving it a six digit number instead of a seven digit number. Also, the number pad (embossment) looks like the later shape, from the remains of the number, probably a late '17.
It certainly is not the only brass era T with a post-brass engine. Some of the rest of the car does look proper for 1914. I cannot tell for certain about the frame itself from the photos shown. Again, it is not alone in that detail if it is a later one.
As with ANY antique automobile, it is wise to look it over carefully, and know what you are looking at, or have someone that you can trust who does know these things. I cannot tell from here how solid it is, or how badly the restoration was really done. As I said before, finding a decent '14 for under $17K would be tough. Is this one worth $20K as is? I don't think so. Is it worth the $17K, or only $12K? I couldn't say without knowing a bit more about it.
I do know that I wish I could have it, just how it is. (I even have a real early '14 engine sitting on my shop floor, NOT for sale).
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2
RE the black one, the sell states they are selling for deceased landlord and it has a title. I hope they include the proper paper work to both release the car and show power of attorney or have the right to sell the car.
Tony, I don't know the time frame, but for a while the wood firewalls had the mounts on the side of the frame. They are just like the steel firewall mounts, but the offset is different between the two to allow for the thickness differences. Dave
Sioux City '14 on Craigslist:
Phone number is included in the reply tab.
The mileage claim has been revised. This looks like a 40 year old reconstruction. My 2 cents worth, discounted to a penny....
Water pump indicates it runs hot and may need a new radiator core.
Looks like a 1918 engine, and the serial number fits. Frame might also be 1918, with an added battery carrier to match the added starter. Not a whole lot different than a 1914 frame, you could easily make it into a '14 look - alike chassis without removing the body. The wrong year engine hurts value some, but it is not priced crazy high like the red one. If I wanted another '14 this might be a decent start.
Still like it better than the red one.
>>>Most likely either an explosion whistle (operated off one cylinder) or a wolf whistle (operated off the intake manifold).<<<
Hi Wayne - Yeah, I can see it now with the new engine photo. There are two foot buttons just right of the brake peddle - starter and wolf/train whistle?
I really don't want to say any more about this one. But I think I need to repeat something. I do think it could be a good start on a decent brass era touring. However, I looked more closely at the photos last night. And a couple things don't look quite right on the body.
I don't like to put down other people's cars, especially when they are trying to sell them.
But I copy and paste from my previous posts. Always good advice.
"As with ANY antique automobile, it is wise to look it over carefully, and know what you are looking at, or have someone that you can trust who does know these things. I cannot tell from here how solid it is, or how badly the restoration was really done."
"And yes, buyer beware. It may be a bit over-priced because of how much is right or wrong with it. But decent '14s are TOUGH to find much under $17K."
This car may yet be a good one for someone. I wish I could afford to buy it. I would consider it if I could. Yes, I do see some things "not right". But it looks like a decent '14 to me. A little reworking could make a nice car out of it.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2
I should drive down and look at it. Only 70 miles away.
The owner sent me an e-mail and said others have been having a hard time viewing the you-tube video. He said to look up 1914 model T startup and walk around. Here is a link to the video.
Just received an email notification from eBay that the red one has been reduced to only 35 grand. Now I'm afraid one of you will beat me to it.
Won't be me, Steve J!!!!
The car I really wish I could buy off eBad right now is the '13 Studebaker!