1917 - 1925 APPROXIMATE YEAR IDENTIFICATION CHANGES

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: 1917 - 1925 APPROXIMATE YEAR IDENTIFICATION CHANGES
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Blanchard on Tuesday, February 16, 2016 - 12:44 pm:

During my search and eventual purchase of my 1920 T I learned a lot from the MTFCA experts on how to spot the differences between 1917 through 1925 years.

What I want to do is try to build a reference page showing the differences between models (Touring) after the brass years.

I have a few books showing most of these differences McCalley's being the best, but I want to try to have them all in one place for easy access for those looking to buy a T.
So I want to pick your brain, from the obvious to the small details on changes over the years.

I understand that placing an exact date on all these changes is virtually impossible so I just want to do a general 'year' date that way when one is inspecting a 1920 T they can make a reasonable assessment that it is a 1920 and not a 1923 body (like it happened to me (3 times)).

If you can please place the years before the change would be of great help (including pictures along with the description would be best!), like so:



1920-1921

Touring model rear assembly panels changes from 5 panels to three panels.

5 panels, seam pre 21:



3 panels, no seam post 21:





1922-1923

Hood clash strips where change from straight design to a dogleg design to match larger hood design

Straight pre 23:



Dog leg post 23:




1923-1924

Spring shackles changed from changed from L type to U type. (I don't have these pictures so if you have them please post them!)

Thanks in advance!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Blanchard on Tuesday, February 16, 2016 - 12:50 pm:

I'll post a few more just need to get the pictures set up...

I'm interested to see all these changes!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Tuesday, February 16, 2016 - 01:02 pm:

FYI, the MTFCI judging standards book has a chapter for each model year listing its features. :-)

http://modelt.org/featured/product/judging-guidelines/


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Trent Boggess on Tuesday, February 16, 2016 - 01:19 pm:

Robert,

Don't forget that the radiator height was increased for 1923-25, and that at the bottom of the shell the trim strip was removed. Instead the 1923-25 cars had an apron beneath the radiator shell that covered the crank hole and the front cross member.

That is the first thing I look for when I am evaluating a black era Model T.

Respectfully submitted,

Trent Boggess


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Blanchard on Tuesday, February 16, 2016 - 01:21 pm:

Mark, thanks for the link! Going to purchase it.

One of the things I plan to do is once I get my 20 I am going to take pictures and match them up with later (and earlier) models. This book will be of great help!

But what I wanted to do is have a quick guide reference for those that are looking into buying but don't have full knowledge (Like myself) this way they can go on this thread and do a quick check list to make sure things are what they claim to be.

I figure folks here can input faster than I can, plus I am sure I will be missing many things!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Tuesday, February 16, 2016 - 01:26 pm:

1923 model year has the low radiator, hood and cowl, same height as 1917 through 1922 model years. There is no apron beneath the radiator.

1924 model year has the high radiator and apron.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Tuesday, February 16, 2016 - 01:39 pm:

pic


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Blanchard on Tuesday, February 16, 2016 - 01:48 pm:

New for 1924, T radiator apron, notice fender flap (arrow) to match new apron.



(Message edited by Stork on February 16, 2016)

(Message edited by Stork on February 16, 2016)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Blanchard on Tuesday, February 16, 2016 - 05:02 pm:

Here is what I believe to be a late 1923 which makes it a great example to show post 1921 to late 1923 before the 1924 model change of the high radiator/apron/etc.

I think it is a late model because the windshield is sloped as opposed to upright. In my search I found a 23 just like this one but with an upright windshield.

Granted it could have been restored like that, but that is what makes this all fun!

Notice Its fenders don't have the folded over tips to match the apron (which this T does not have, apron was added in 24). It does have the 3 panel back which dates it post 21. It has a low radiator as well the Seller says it is a 23.

Windshield slopped back which was standard for 1924 but was seen in late production 1923 models


Lower radiator.


No seam making it a 3 panel post 1921


Here the arm rests are thinner making it a post 1921


The dash ends angle up I believe the pre 21 bodies had a flat bottom dash from end to end. Also the steering column bracket was added for support. This was done because the firewall was changed from wood to steel around 1920/21 and the thinner steel firewall couldn't support the steering colum


No apron and fender does not have lip making it 1923 and earlier


Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong and add to what is missing.

(Message edited by Stork on February 16, 2016)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Tuesday, February 16, 2016 - 08:01 pm:

There is such thing as "late" 1923 Ford. The car in the photos above is a 1923 Model T Ford touring - period.

All 1923 model year Fords have the following:

Low radiator
Low hood
Low cowl

In addition to the above, all 1923 model year tourings and roadsters have the following:

Slant windshield
One-man top

On the forum, there is constant and totally unnecessary confusion regarding the 1923 model year. It is really simple but for some reason folks make it complicated. There is no reason to use terms like"early" or "late."

(Message edited by Erik_johnson on February 16, 2016)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Tuesday, February 16, 2016 - 08:03 pm:



(Message edited by Erik_johnson on February 16, 2016)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Blanchard on Tuesday, February 16, 2016 - 08:25 pm:

Erik thanks for the clarification! Well, I can't edit my post anymore (wish they would give us a 24 hour grace period) Anyway, good to know I guess the 23 I saw was actually a 21 or 22.

Once my 20 arrives I'll take more pictures and place them side by side with the 23 and hopefully an earlier model (17 or 18, pre electric start)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Blanchard on Tuesday, February 16, 2016 - 08:39 pm:

No pictures but most of the info needed. Click on the link and scroll down to see specifics on model years (Link from the MTFCA encyclopedia):

http://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/1917-20H.htm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Wednesday, February 17, 2016 - 09:01 am:

Another anomaly of the '23 model year is that the Runabouts have the low cowl/radiator/hood bodies like the earlier years, but they have the larger turtle like '24-5 models.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith, Lomita, California on Wednesday, February 17, 2016 - 11:14 am:

A late '23 is a 1924. Another item for easy identification is the '21-'22 models are not using the L arms for the top saddles any more.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Wednesday, February 17, 2016 - 02:13 pm:

Most confusion is the 'new' 1924 model year, with high radiator / high hood / high cowl bodies came in around June of 1923.

It was mid-calendar year 1923 for the 'new' 1924 style open cars.

The 1923 model years cars also changed in April 1923 from the wood firewall of 1909 to a metal firewall, so some confusion as to year, when you see a slant windshield, one man top T with a wooden firewall too. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith, Lomita, California on Thursday, February 18, 2016 - 11:00 am:

Did Ford ever install the steering column support on the '23 models before the '24s came out?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Blanchard on Thursday, February 18, 2016 - 11:20 am:

I know the aftermarket folks made steering column supports but I don't know if Ford placed them on the wood firewall models... I am sure someone here will know that answer...


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