OT- Ford Model N FS Hemmings

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: OT- Ford Model N FS Hemmings
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Skingley ......Westland, Michigan on Wednesday, February 17, 2016 - 08:48 am:

FYI

http://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/cars-for-sale/ford/model-n/1810670.html


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Trent Boggess on Wednesday, February 17, 2016 - 09:43 am:

I think this is actually a 1907-08 Model S Runabout.

It has R/S fenders and running boards. Note the running board brackets riveted to the frame. These are found only on R runabouts, S runabouts and S roadsters.

The sidelights are E&J flare sides. These came out in 1908 but were used on Model S runabouts..

The wheels appear to be 28x3, which were used on all Model N and S runabouts (unless different wheels were special ordered).

The tail light appears to me to be a bail handled Neverout. Bail handled lights had pretty much disappeared by the end of 1907.

I have no idea of what the coil box actually is. It appears to be using Model T KW coils as the spark plug leads run through the firewall just like a Model T. NRS cars used (as far as I know) either Spitdorf (Model N) or Heinze (Models R & S) ignition coils. The high tension spark plug wires should be passing through 4 small holes in the firewall, just below and to the left of the coil box.

The engine compartment looks pretty much OK to me. It has a Model T carburetor, and I do think they went overboard on the red paint. The wiring is a mess.

The engine number has me confused. From evidence I have found at the Benson Ford Research Center, the serial numbers sequence was re-started 5 different times. The first sequence beginning at 1 and running up to the mid-6,000 range was used on Model N engines. The second sequence again began at 1 and ran up to about 2555 for engines used in the Model R. The third again begins with 1 and runs up to 2350-2400 and was used on the Model S runabouts. The fourth again started at 1 and ran up to about 3750 to 3800 and used on motors for the Model S Roadster. Finally, the fifth sequence probably begins with 1 and the upper number is unknown. These engines were used in Walkerville Canada cars. I have seen very little information on serial numbers used on NRS cars built in Canada. My source in the BFRC shows only that engines sent to Canada were carrying special serial numbers after 1906.

The motor number 4423 suggests to me that this was originally a Model N motor, built during the first half of 1907.

The car has a McCord mechanical oiler. These were only used on Model R and S cars.

The body has a pointed turtle deck. The bodies on Model N (after 2500) and Model S runabouts were the same.

Overall, this appears to be a nice Model S Runabout.

Respectfully submitted,

Trent Boggess


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Skingley ......Westland, Michigan on Wednesday, February 17, 2016 - 10:37 am:

Thanks Trent for commenting, I enjoy the knowledge of history of the early Ford cars. I have enjoyed the early ford history by Pate, and your information by research. I hope the EFR will do something special for the completion of the Oswald Model N. It would be neat to have a first start at Piquette .........just thinking.........Bob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Wednesday, February 17, 2016 - 10:42 am:

Trent,

Notice the body tag has the serial number 1143. Me thinks it's had a motor swap. Or, at the very least, a crankcase swap.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Wednesday, February 17, 2016 - 11:05 am:

The Model S was introduced in August 1907 as a 1908 model year car by Ford, replacing the 1907 Model R in the lineup. The serial number 1143 would likely be produced and shipped around the first week of January 1908.

The closest serial number that I have in my notes from the Accounts Receivables shipping records is S/N 441 Model S shipped to Princeton Hardware Princeton IN on October 23, 1907. This is well into the 1908 model year.

It never ceases to amaze me how there are never any 1908 letter cars known to exist if the owner's claims are used.

More info here:
http://www.mtfca.com/books/1908.htm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Wednesday, February 17, 2016 - 11:10 am:

Royce,

"It never ceases to amaze me how there are never any 1908 letter cars known to exist if the owner's claims are used."

How very true! The previous owners swore up & down that my N was a 1906. However, the serial number, (6000), makes it a 1907, (or so I've been told). In all fairness, records were not available to the previous owners so they couldn't have known any better. They just picked the oldest year it could be. I suppose that makes it "better".


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Trent Boggess on Wednesday, February 17, 2016 - 11:14 am:

Jerry,

I agree with you.

As you correctly point out, motor numbers and car numbers on the identification plate were suppose to match. Both of these numbers match on my 1908 Model S Roadster.

If 1143 was the original motor number as well as car number, then this would put its shipping date well into the last half of 1907. I do not have a copy of The Early Ford Database at hand right now, but I will look it up later today.

This is an image of an S runabout taken in the late winter or early spring of 1908.

Image{Model S}

It was the first Ford (and first automobile) owned by a member of my family.

Note the resemblance to the car in the Hemmings advertisement.

Respectfully submitted,

Trent Boggess


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Trent Boggess on Wednesday, February 17, 2016 - 11:16 am:

Model S


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen - Eastern Nebraska on Wednesday, February 17, 2016 - 12:40 pm:

Trent,
I looked at your database quickly (thank you for your research efforts), and found these numbers that "bracket S #1143. S 1133 is listed as 04/15/1908. #1151 - 04/17/1908. A few close numbers, #1145 - 04/18/1908 and #1149 - 05/05/1908. Unless 1143 (Model S) is a real "outlier," it should have left in April or May 1908.

A few other tidbits. Only 240 Model S were listed sold on the Fiscal Year 1907 (Oct 1, 1906-Sep 30, 1907).

FY 1907:


FY 1908:

Audit copy courtesy of The Henry Ford, all rights apply.

This Sep 1, 1907 Ford advertisement lists the new Model S as "an intermediate model" between models N and R:



I don't know if Ford originally intended to continue with all three models (N, R and S), or if this was just a way to clear out the pipeline of Model R. Either way, both models provided (above charts) significantly more profit than the Model N.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Eagle Idaho Falls on Wednesday, February 17, 2016 - 01:12 pm:

Robert, thanks for the link. I very much enjoy looking at these brass cars. I can't relate to those dollars but its a great thing to see.
Rich


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen - Eastern Nebraska on Wednesday, February 17, 2016 - 01:55 pm:

I meant to do this earlier, a few pics from the link:






Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Skingley ......Westland, Michigan on Wednesday, February 17, 2016 - 03:21 pm:

Richard we share the same interest.......the second T I bought was my dream car....I find myself still dreaming......


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