What is a waterpump?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: What is a waterpump?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Friday, February 19, 2016 - 06:26 pm:

I just saw of the question about E timer and my first thought was Here we go again!

After reading the replies I was amazed to see that you guys gave very good answers, so I thought I would give you a chance to unleash your whit. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Wrenn-Monroeville OH on Friday, February 19, 2016 - 07:03 pm:

Hope you're ducking from the tomatoes!! LOL :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George John Drobnock on Friday, February 19, 2016 - 07:17 pm:

Fords earlier cars, the Model N for example had a complicated water pump through out production. With the introduction of the Model T Ford introduced the first few hundred Model Ts with a water pump, but it was eliminated early in production. Ford opted for a cheaper and more reliable thermosyphon system. Thermosyphon was a common engine-cooling method of the era. Hot water, being less dense, would rise to the top of the engine and up into the top of the radiator, descending to the bottom as it cooled, and back into the engine. (This was the direction of water flow in most cars which did have water pumps, until the introduction of crossflow radiator designs.) The thermosiphon system was susceptible to overheating if worked heavily, but served well for most Model T usage. Many types of water pumps were available as aftermarket accessories. For those unfamiliar with a water pump, it pumps water.

Henry Ford had patents for multiple ignition systems too, including a solid state electronic timer using lead galena cats whiskers, but this design was lost. It is said that Henry put pen to paper on the margin of a Detroit News cross word page, only to have Mrs. Ford mistakenly discard the drawing. To keep production on schedule Henry and the design team opted to use the magneto, timer, coil design ignition.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Patterson. Far South Coast. NSW. OZ on Friday, February 19, 2016 - 08:05 pm:

A water pump is something that makes a very satisfying sound as it hits the bottom of the trash bin.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Donnie Brown North Central Arkansas on Friday, February 19, 2016 - 08:11 pm:

A water pump is a very good wheel chock. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Mikeska, Denver CO on Friday, February 19, 2016 - 08:15 pm:

Well... A water pump won't cool down some of us!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Lloid on Friday, February 19, 2016 - 08:37 pm:

I just removed the pump from my 27. It was on my T when I bought it. Seems to runs the same temperature without it! Just like everyone on here always says. This was the first afternoon i have had off in 10 months. I wanted to pull the pump since I bought it. Glad to get it done. Tim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By ken bechtel on Friday, February 19, 2016 - 09:01 pm:

This is a water pump


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Friday, February 19, 2016 - 09:46 pm:

When I got my first T the water pump was leaking. I took it to a man who has some machine tools and he made me a new shaft out of bronze. The pump worked and did not leak. Then one day on a tour, the pulley came loose and the set screw made a groove in the shaft. I was able to continue without the belt and I was able to turn the pump to a position where the water could go through. The car didn't overheat even though we had to go about a mile in Ruckstell.

I didn't even know that a T did not come with a water pump until someone in the club informed me. I found a intake fitting and installed it. No more water pump troubles and the car runs without overheating.

It also warms up faster in cold weather without the pump. When the pump had been on the car, on one of the first tours I went on we went into the mountains where it was very cold. We stopped for a break and the other drivers stood in front of their radiators to keep warm. Mine was still cold. You see thermosyphon works as the coolant warms up and the hotter it gets the better it works. Something like a natural thermostat. When the water pump moves the water too fast, it goes right from the intake to the outlet and back through the radiator.

So you see if you really want to use a water pump and have it work well, you need to get one of the better ones, and then also use a thermostat.

Here in California we have our share of hot weather and also mountains where it can get hot in the summer and cold in the winter, and my 3 T's all work fine without the pump. So the pump is really an improvement on something which doesn't need improving.

If you are limited in the amount you can or want to spend on your T, Auxiliary brakes are a much better investment than a water pump.

Now you know all you probably didn't want to hear about water pumps!!:-) But I'm sure that someone else will add to what I have said either for or against waterpumps!:-)
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Willie K Cordes on Friday, February 19, 2016 - 09:59 pm:

Royce likes water pumps but he has not posted to this post yet??


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry Davis Houston TX on Friday, February 19, 2016 - 10:03 pm:

I love my water pump.....Jerry.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary H. White - Sheridan, MI on Friday, February 19, 2016 - 10:38 pm:

Now, at 3400 gallons per minute,this is a water pump.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chapin_Mine_Steam_Pump_Engine


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Saturday, February 20, 2016 - 12:00 am:

What is a Waterpump

Oh waterpump you are to me,
the essence of my Model T.
You sit there by my engine's side,
spinning merrily while I ride.

Your purpose is a mystery,
to purists of the Model T.
You've never been a problem to me,
so I think I'll let you be.

If Lizzy needs you I don't know.
Do you really help her go?
Would the T still run with guile,
if you sat on my junk pile?

Hard to say, do not know,
should you stay, or should you go?
I think that I'll just let you be,
under the hood of my Model T.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kep on Saturday, February 20, 2016 - 01:31 am:

A water pump is used to circulate water. i speculate that most model T do not need them but heavily modified ones might.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Craig Anderson, central Wisconsin on Saturday, February 20, 2016 - 03:20 am:

A water pump is what's saving me big bucks instead of blowing big $$$ for a new rad.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Matthew Atchinson on Saturday, February 20, 2016 - 07:34 am:

I'm just sitting here twiddling my thumbs waiting for Royce to show up :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Marty Bufalini - Grosse Pointe, MI on Saturday, February 20, 2016 - 08:49 am:

Jerry Van: keep your day job!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Saturday, February 20, 2016 - 09:28 am:

You know, it seems to be a bone of contention but my last T, a '23 Touring, had a pump that was installed by the former owner. The only driving the old timer did was in parades and he claimed it cured his over heating problem. I didn't remove it as I suspected the rad might not be too good. Never caused a problem but could have been masking the inefficent radiator. If it ain't broke....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Mclellan on Saturday, February 20, 2016 - 09:35 am:

I'll just leave this here......


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George John Drobnock on Saturday, February 20, 2016 - 09:40 am:

""So the pump is really an improvement on something which doesn't need improving. ""

Wow. Good stuff. All the accessories that are being added to the T are truly not necessary - water pump, fuel pump, 4 wheel brakes, etimers, distributors, and more -- just bragging rights for a new toy...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Mclellan on Saturday, February 20, 2016 - 09:43 am:

Until your crawling in a parade on a hot day ;)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Saturday, February 20, 2016 - 11:59 am:

I am with Matthew -waiting for Royce! :-)
But not twiddling


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Saturday, February 20, 2016 - 01:14 pm:

Marty,

Who's gonna help you put your T back together this spring?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Barker, Somerset, England on Saturday, February 20, 2016 - 01:42 pm:

What is a water pump?
A water pump is something other cars have.
Nothing a Model T owner need worry about.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ed in California on Saturday, February 20, 2016 - 01:43 pm:

Not true. Water pumps do have a place on some Model Ts.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Miller, Sequim WA on Sunday, February 21, 2016 - 12:15 am:

Come on Guys. Henry built the first T's with these devices and if you happen to own one of these engines that's pretty awesome if you ask me.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Sunday, February 21, 2016 - 06:56 am:

Model Ts are different things to different people. Some just want the exterior look of Model T sheet metal to ride in. To them, if it don't show with the hood closed, it's fair game. Others are fascinated with the mechanical aspects of the Model T. They know and appreciate the ways in which the Model T is different from other cars, today and even in its own day. The mentality of the second group is often not understood and certainly not appreciated by the first group (or the many other groups in between).

Thermosyphon is a very interesting phenomenon. It's almost like magic. I LIKE being able to tell folks it doesn't have a pump of any kind. Fuel, oil, or water. It baffles them, then they want to know more. Then I get to tell them. The oil and fuel flow are easier understood, but Thermosyphon is almost like magic. It's way too interesting for me to want to do away with it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By G.R.Cheshire on Sunday, February 21, 2016 - 07:29 am:

I'm with you Hal. When I tell some people that I have no pumps on my "T" they sometimes look at me in disbelief then I tell them the only pump this "T" came with was one to put air in the tires! Some of them walk away just shaking their heads but the most fun I have had was when a '69 Camaro blew a water pump at a car show and I told him that wouldn't have happened with a model "T" because they don't have such useless accessories... then I gave him a ride to the parts store to spend more of his money! :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary H. White - Sheridan, MI on Sunday, February 21, 2016 - 02:19 pm:

The thermosyphon principle was in use for many years prior to automobiles in the design of heating systems for homes and buildings.


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