Newb ,and a pile of 21 runabout .

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: Newb ,and a pile of 21 runabout .
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Monday, February 22, 2016 - 02:15 pm:

Hello , im new to this model T thing, have always loved these cars ,and finally found a worthy project that i could afford . i'm hoping to meet people nearby who share this interest . i've enjoyed the very informative forum for awhile . i would like to share this project and its progress.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Monday, February 22, 2016 - 02:18 pm:

Once i get it figured out i will be posting pics ,and would love to hear from people with so much more knowledge of these cars .


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Harper - Keene, NH on Monday, February 22, 2016 - 02:20 pm:

Welcome Michael,

When you can, please post some pictures. We all will cheer you on. I looked at your profile and like your personal quote as one never knows when the tide will change...... Good Luck with your project. Bill


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Monday, February 22, 2016 - 02:28 pm:

thank you 1st attempt at pic sending.i need to resize images ...ok I'll try again later rite now I'm too excited working on the wood repairs!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Tuesday, February 23, 2016 - 02:12 am:

image/bmp
20160206_161351.bmp (31.1 k)
trying to get the picture thing figured out . this is a pic of the frame getting ready for paint


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By G.R.Cheshire on Tuesday, February 23, 2016 - 09:58 am:

Michael what operating system are you using? With that info we can help you resize your pictures


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By G.R.Cheshire on Tuesday, February 23, 2016 - 10:02 am:

A lot of people who use windows like this software there are others
http://www.rw-designer.com/picture-resize


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Tuesday, February 23, 2016 - 10:15 am:

Your picture has to be a jpg file, not a bmp.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Tuesday, February 23, 2016 - 11:02 am:

I'm using windows 10, and I have an android phone for pics . G.R. Cheshire thanks looking into that now .so far it's not a pile .from info gleaned here its all 21. I have the suspension, and frame back together and painted .engine back in frame , and after installing the new wiring harness .tried to start .I found 2 stuck valves .1 freed up easy the other had to be cut into small pieces using a dremel.the guide came out too. This engine was absolutely brand new.the PO said Lee Pierce had built it new mag , and trans too! I think it got wet in storage .anyways a new valve and guide was installed by me and it lapped in very easy .I hand cranked it and after a few tries it ran for 20 seconds .it did that 3 times ....woohoo! Oh btw I put fresh oil in , just used Dello I had for my cummins pickup.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Tuesday, February 23, 2016 - 11:42 am:

New aluminum pistons and new valves


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Tuesday, February 23, 2016 - 11:53 am:

The #3 cyl ex valve was so stuck after 2 days of trying I used a dremel tool cut the head off , cut the stem off then drove out the guide . I was an engine machinist for 17 years of my life , and never seen a valve so stuck in all that time .


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Tuesday, February 23, 2016 - 12:05 pm:

The frame had only surface rust , I found a stamp on the frame . It was in the shape of a yacht bergie with the letters MSC.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By G.R.Cheshire on Tuesday, February 23, 2016 - 12:43 pm:

Looks pretty good Michael and congrats on learning the re-size thing. Now as a retired Sailor the only significance MSC has for me is Military Sealift Command I'm sure that has nothing to do with the mark you found though:-) :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Tuesday, February 23, 2016 - 03:52 pm:

G.R. that's great , I am a merchant marine , I belong to the MFOW. I thought the same thing Military sea lift ? I found it , it means Michigan stamping company .


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Tuesday, February 23, 2016 - 05:27 pm:

My '16 frame has that maker's mark on the rear cross-member.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Tuesday, February 23, 2016 - 09:40 pm:

I found a website called coachbuilt , it says all model T frames were supplied by MSC. or Parish and Bingham ,whos mark is a circle with a P-B in it. i found some other numbers on the stamped metal piece that's bolted at the body mount ,and goes up at angle with the step for a floorboard . pass side last 2 digits 21 its soaking in vineger water to remove rust .


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Tuesday, February 23, 2016 - 10:25 pm:

This is the part with numbers , it had rusted thru so I'm welding a couple patches in .


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Tuesday, February 23, 2016 - 10:29 pm:

That is the part with number's on it . Getting patched , and returned to service maybe it'll last 100 years :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Wednesday, February 24, 2016 - 10:39 am:

after cleaning the 9 digits are still not all clear . B52980821 , the 2nd 5th and 6th are unsure.any of these could b a 5,8,3,or 0. the engine is 4910959


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Wednesday, February 24, 2016 - 11:01 am:

The engine date is Monday, May 2, 1921.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Wednesday, February 24, 2016 - 08:02 pm:

thank you Steve that is interesting to know .


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Wednesday, February 24, 2016 - 08:34 pm:

won a bid on ebay for 5 rebuilt coils all have new fun projects capacitors and adjusted with hcct and a strobo .


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Wednesday, February 24, 2016 - 08:39 pm:

Here's the cowl it's just sitting there . I drilled the rivets out to replace some  missing wood


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Wednesday, February 24, 2016 - 08:46 pm:

the frame has cast running board brackets .and rivets in the parts pile was new wiring g harness . Thanks to this forum was easy install .


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Wednesday, February 24, 2016 - 09:42 pm:

Michael,

Welcome to the forum and to world (or affliction) of Model T Fords! Looks like you have a good start on a runabout.

You mentioned above that you one of the metal pieces has a number on it “ after cleaning the 9 digits are still not all clear . B52980821 , the 2nd 5th and 6th are unsure.any of these could b a 5,8,3,or 0.

“IF” the metal piece is the right hand floor board riser (the part that holds the top two floorboards up) and “IF” it originally came with the body, that indicates the body was supplied by the outside body maker Beaudett (also spelled Beaudette and referred to as Pontiac in many of the Ford USA records). Below is a photo from Dave Hjortnaes’ May 1920 Model T that has a Beaudett body that also has a date stamp of “20” that represents the year 1920 the body was made.



If you would like additional information about the Beaudett body numbers for the 1919-1922 cars please see the posting at: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/80257/113666.html?1257654140 that has some additional photos and a chart showing that Beaudett stopped supplying bodies to Ford USA on/about Jul 20, 1922.

Also note that where Steve Jelf posted “The engine date is Monday, May 2, 1921” based on the engine number that you posted which was 4910959. That is the date the engine number is included in the range of engines numbers listed in the Main Engine Log of the Ford USA plant.

But engines could have and were assembled at other locations i.e. Branch Plants. In those cases the engine number would have been recorded / included in the May 2, 1921 range of numbers but would have been sent to a branch plant. At the branch plant they would have stamped that number onto and engine & transmission assembly that they assembled at that branch. Normally that would have been a few days or even weeks later. [Note I learn something new every day. Looking on page 524 of Bruce’s Book he makes the note: “Jan 1921 Factory closed all of January. Daily production figures no longer listed in the records. The production figures shown hereafter are the differences between the serial numbers. NOT necessarily the actual number produced.” The reason it was “NOT necessarily the actual number produced” is because sometimes blocks of serial numbers [not engines but numbers] were shipped to the branches for use on engines assembled at the branch]. As an example on Sep 30, 1920, serial numbers 4,422,487 to 4,426,386 are listed. But only 2900 engines were listed as assembled/produced at the main plant. If we subtract the beginning serial number from the ending serial number we see there were 3899 numbers but only 2900 engines. So 999 engine numbers were shipped to one or more Branch Plants for use on engines produced at that location.

So while it is likely that your engine was assembled on May 2, 1921 at the Highland Park Plant, we don’t know for sure. And in the case of engines assembled with the serial numbers that were listed on Sep 30, 1920 – 3/4 were assembled at the Highland Park Plant and 1/4 were assembled at the branch plants.

I picked Sep 30 because the production ended in “00” and I new that the numbers listed would not end in “00” when subtracted.

Again welcome to the forum and our hobby. PS I was stationed at George AFB years ago and really enjoyed my time there. Cars don’t rust much in the High Desert.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Wednesday, February 24, 2016 - 11:26 pm:

Thank you Hap , I was hoping to hear from you . i knew to look for those #'s there because of your post's.the overall condition of the body, the patina of rust ,the carriage bolts in sill wood, has me thinking they were together all this time.George AFB is now a foreign trade zone ..Mike


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Wednesday, February 24, 2016 - 11:57 pm:

Thank you Hap , I was hoping to hear from you . i knew to look for those #'s there because of your post's.the overall condition of the body, the patina of rust ,the carriage bolts in sill wood, has me thinking they were together all this time.George AFB is now a foreign trade zone ..Mike


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Thursday, February 25, 2016 - 07:52 am:

Michael,

Bottom Line Up Front:

You are welcome. If you or anyone else would like a free copy of R.V. Anderson’s 1923 low cowl runabout rewooding article from the Nov – Dec 1987 “Vintage Ford” pages 7-17 just drop me a note with your e-mail address. Please put “send 1923 rewooding article” or something similar so it gets read sooner rather than deleted by mistake.

There were at least 5 different body makers and 3 major body designs (they all pretty much look the same to a non-Model T person) between 1915 and 1925. Be sure you are using the parts from the same year range/body design and if possible from the same body maker.

I didn’t see anyone mention to join the nearest local Model T Ford chapter. They are listed at: http://www.mtfca.com/clubpages/chapters.htm and http://www.modelt.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=5&Itemid=15 (note the MTFCI did not work for me this morning – but they also have chapters all across the USA.) Joining the one near you is normally a great help and a way to meet new friends with a common interest.


+++++ Additional details:


The Model T Ford Club of America allows us to distribute articles like R.V.Anderson’s rewooding article for non-commercial use to promote our hobby and our club. R.V. Anderson’s 1923 low cowl has several differences from the earlier 1915-1922 runabout/roadster bodies. It has the narrow arm rests, more metal replacing wood in different parts of the body, the top saddles come out the side of body rather than dropping down from the side of the seat etc. But aligning the doors, fitting parts, etc. will be the same or very similar in many of the cases.

Also try to confirm that the sheet metal is originally all from the same body. If it is, it is almost always easier to put it back together. If it isn’t, then often times it requires more fitting to get the parts to fit properly so they look good. And most importantly – be sure the parts are for the same year range car. For someone new to Model Ts and even those who have been around Model Ts for a while, it is very easy to mistake the touring 1915-1921 or runabout 1915-1922 front seat heel panel with the 1923-1925 front seat heel panel. The earlier one is a little taller for the round gasoline tank and the second is lower. [And yes the 1915-1918 did not have a hole for the starter switch and the 1915 into 1916 wood seat framed front seat used a heel panel that tended to be more like the 1914 style than the later 1915-1921/22 metal seat frame style. The same is true for the rear quarter panels. One is set up for the wide arm rest (on the tourings approximately 1915-1921 and on the runabouts approximately 1915-1922) and the narrow arm rest ( on tourings approximately 1922-1925 and runabouts 1923-1925). And there was/is an undocumented amount of time when both wide and narrow arm rest bodies were used. And with minimal work either part can be fitted to either year range body. But it would look strange to have a wide arm rest on one side and a narrow arm rest on the other side etc. And if you want the car to be a correct as practical – then for your 1921 you would want the wide arm rest on your runabout. And some parts will not fit – i.e. the front cowl for the high radiator will not interchange with the front cowl for the low radiator. (Ok with extra sheet metal or removing sheet metal and making a custom cowl adapter (and fiber glass or bondo) anything can be made to fit anything else. I once had a Triumph TR3 parts car that had an MG Magnette grille grafted onto it. Someone went to a lot of effort and did a good job but it was no where close to the way it originally was produced. ) As you are rebuilding the body, obtaining the correct year range parts will make it easier to fit the parts and will give you a more valuable T when you are finished. Less work and in my opinion a better end product.

If you did not receive a set of rewooding plans with your purchase, I would recommend that you contact Leon Parker (click on: : http://www.mtfca.com/cgi-bin/discus/board-profile.cgi?action=view_profile&profil e=leon_parker-users and it brings up his profile and you can send him a private message (PM) through the forum). Note Leon’s plans are great and if you have purchased plans from him he will give you advice over the telephone etc.

Steve Jelf has an excellent set of books he recommends for new owners on his web site at: http://dauntlessgeezer.com/ with the T section at: http://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG52.html and the recommended books listed at: http://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG80.html

Note there are also free “how to books” on the internet such – see: http://books.google.com/books?id=uKVAAQAAMAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=editions:xR 56bbT2W68C&hl=en&sa=X&ei=tdpWVMi4PMOjgwSAhoC4Ag&ved=0CBcQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=fa lse and there are others – on the net. And the Ford Service is online at: http://mtfci2002.readyhosting.com/manuals/Model_T_Service_Manual/mtsm.html and does include the starter equipped cars and even the 1926 -27 “Improved car” features. The owners/instruction manuals are at:http://www.mtfca.com/books/bookmenu.htm and the 1921 is for your year car. Also the Ford Instruction Course on that same page the link is: http://www.mtfca.com/books/Course.htm And to help you with parts identification etc. I like Lang’s Old Car Parts on line catalog (you can also down load it as a PDF) available from: https://www.modeltford.com/download.aspx 16 mb so on a slow connection start the down load when you are going to do something else. Many of the photos are in color. Many but not all of the part numbers are the same as those used by Ford. They also have some helpful tips in the catalog. They are also great folks to deal with.

Also if you may want to review Milt Webb’s excellent “How to remove a T from mothballs” see the posting at: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/29/8538.html and scroll down to Tom Mullin’s posting the third posting from the top. While it was written for a T that had been stored for a long time – running the checklist on any T can help you know what to look for.

Also Milt has a great article about how slow cranking may be caused by poor 6volt electrical maintenance see Milt’s Six-Volt Battery Performance http://milttheinstructor.com/Six-Volt_Battery_Performance.pdf

Again welcome to the hobby and have fun with your new Ford!

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Thursday, February 25, 2016 - 08:22 pm:

Thank for all these links and advice . I met Don president from Riverside Ca. model T club today and spent many hours looking at model T stuff .He let me crawl around his cars and look at them for hours . This is one beautiful functional time machine ...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Friday, February 26, 2016 - 09:28 pm:

Here is the Beadette numbers after cleaning.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Friday, February 26, 2016 - 09:48 pm:

After I disassembled the coil box realized there was a broken wire .not sure if I broke it .made a repair new eyelet crimped and soldered .used regular varnish on wood cleaned copper bits , bolts and reassembled . I plan to order the fun projects thermo plastic kit soon . After checking the coils found 1 miss . The spring metal at timer was loose . 4 buzzed in a row prime , key ,crank pupupupupu adjusted timing , choke off sped up wow! I have no cooling hoses yet so after maybe less than 2 minute turned her off . I am so very happy so so happy sounds like a good engine smooth no wierd knocks no Grey smoke just a touch black- unburned fuel


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Don Kirtley on Saturday, February 27, 2016 - 06:44 pm:

Good deal. Shes running better. Keep it up, You'l be driving it soon. Come down some day and we'll do some driving lessons. Don


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Sunday, February 28, 2016 - 12:31 am:

You bet Don !


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Sunday, February 28, 2016 - 12:38 am:

You bet Don !


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Tuesday, March 01, 2016 - 08:12 pm:

Made room in the garage , and have made real progress on the wood . Just testing the fit of sheetmetal now.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Carlton on Tuesday, March 01, 2016 - 08:14 pm:

Lookin' good!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Tuesday, March 01, 2016 - 08:16 pm:

some minor adjustments here at the door's bottom aft .


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Tuesday, March 01, 2016 - 08:22 pm:

Thank you Jim... I'm getting excited .it feels so solid and nothing has been tightend down yet!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Wednesday, March 02, 2016 - 12:13 am:

just mocked it up to see how it all fits . It looks good ...very little bodywork besides the patchwork .


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Wednesday, March 02, 2016 - 12:27 am:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Phillips on Wednesday, March 02, 2016 - 01:46 am:

Looking fantastic
great work


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Don Kirtley on Wednesday, March 02, 2016 - 02:37 pm:

Looking good . Better than last week when it was in the back of your truck.. Don


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Don Kirtley on Wednesday, March 02, 2016 - 02:40 pm:

We have a tour coming up in a few weeks, You might be ready at this pace. Don


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Duey_C on Wednesday, March 02, 2016 - 11:33 pm:

What a SWEET little Ford!
I wish to thank you for allowing us on your "SWEET little Ford" journey!
Oh my. You've never driven one? Too cool!
Neither had I back in the mid nineties when I threw my (kind of) '24 together.
Not near as nice as yours... :-/
Too much fun coming! I had the basics but wow.
I'll go back to lurking this grand thread.
:-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Thursday, March 03, 2016 - 03:19 am:

Thanks , the interest my family has shown is a pleasant surprise . I'm hoping to have her driving around the block in 3 weeks or so .Duey thanks ,others intrest is very encouraging . I will be helping on a different project in Newport Beach ca. for a couple days , if anyone is nearby has a T I'd love to see it .


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Carlton on Thursday, March 03, 2016 - 06:34 am:

It's strange how everyone likes a T. They all just make a person smile. That's great that your family is on board!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Wednesday, March 09, 2016 - 11:36 am:

I'm glad to see the site up ,and running i was having withdrawal . I have disassembled the body to epoxy glue ,and coat the wood .I'm also painting the inside of the body ,and welding more patches in .


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dick Fischer - Arroyo Grande, CA on Wednesday, March 09, 2016 - 01:26 pm:

Small world. This is a picture of my Dad, taken at George AFB in early 1962, soon after he acquired his T.

Dad was the Lockheed Field Service Rep at that time. He may have been challenging one of the pilots to a drag race.

T at GAFB


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Thursday, March 10, 2016 - 02:17 am:

what a cool picture ! are you going to Pismo for the T.R.O.G. in October ?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Monday, March 14, 2016 - 12:29 am:

I forgot to reconnect the mag wire .it was disconnected to avoid messing up the fresh mag ...if I didn't already screw it up .


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Monday, March 14, 2016 - 12:33 am:

I had a miss .Turns out the wires to timer nuts had rust on them causing the miss ... so sand paper till shiny and reconnect wires with corrosion block ...problem solved .


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Monday, March 14, 2016 - 12:36 am:

my buddy took this apart and cleaned it up then reassembled only 2 tabs broke off .It works great now . The bolts are temporary


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Monday, March 14, 2016 - 12:46 am:

the wood has been varnished . I'm using as much original wood as possible ... I will be test fitting the body again for reassembly . I need a decent old 30x 3 1/2 tire if anyone in socal has 1 ..or more I can see the tube on 1 it's so bad , and really all need replaced ,not in budget just yet .


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Monday, March 14, 2016 - 02:29 am:

Michael,
Note the original wood is mostly black, for an authentic look I would paint the wood a satin black. This is actually more than Ford did, but we're not trying to build the car as inexpensively as possible, and a good finish on the wood protects it.
Looking good!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Monday, March 14, 2016 - 06:10 pm:

the mag does work ! hurray! ,the verdict is still out on the generator -dynamo


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Monday, March 14, 2016 - 07:46 pm:

Can the gen be polarized backwards?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Monday, March 14, 2016 - 07:50 pm:

With a new battery the starter spins the engine very fast for 6v starts rite up runs smoothly on both battery and mag woohoo!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith, Lomita, California on Tuesday, March 15, 2016 - 08:28 am:

That is a scarce frame you have. Don't see many of them. I'm talking about the bracket for the starter switch.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Wednesday, March 16, 2016 - 12:40 am:

Thanks Larry , I really am just learning about these cars . I did find the MSC bergie stamp on the frame , and also have been told the riveted cast style running board brackets are something Interesting , but not out of possibilities for a 21.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Wednesday, March 16, 2016 - 12:46 am:

Thanks to Don Kirtley I should have a generator that works tomorrow we'll install and adjust , we took the best of parts from 2 generators . Thank you for all your help Don


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Wednesday, March 16, 2016 - 12:58 am:

David Dewey , good to know about the wood color .I planned to leave it bright , but if I get more serious about it all being perfect I can spray satin or flat . I am trying to do rite by this car , as I believe it to be an original car and not a pile of parts.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Friday, March 18, 2016 - 03:08 am:

Adjusted the generator to under 4 amps at a gestamated 20 mph . Put the cowl back on, and making final adjustments to the wood and body .


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Friday, March 18, 2016 - 12:32 pm:

I have a couple wards Riverside tires coming from Lucas tire . so an actual drive could happen soon. even if i have to sit on tank.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Friday, March 18, 2016 - 03:51 pm:

Make a little wood frame to go over the tank, otherwise you're likely to have a new dent in the tank! Some of the cars came from the factory that way!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Friday, March 18, 2016 - 08:38 pm:

tires arrived already ! Wow less than 24 hours ! Dewy I already sat on my tank before I saw you message , but it's not gonna dent so easily or I'm not heavy enough at 175#'s .I'm lucky the tube had spun with old rotten tire . I put the new tire on the tube appeared fine .I drove around my yard then around the circle about 16th mile maybe .After sitting 5 minutes the tube let go at the stem .


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Friday, March 18, 2016 - 08:45 pm:

so that was my 1st drive ever in or on a model T ! I really had to think about my moves car runs and drives great !


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Friday, March 18, 2016 - 09:23 pm:

Advice needed how to repair tube stem , and patches . I am happy I was able to drive 1/16th mile ...parked in garage then 5 minutes later fishsssssh shhh out of nowhere . The tube spun on old tire while on a jackstand it looked good but clearly was damaged .


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Monday, March 21, 2016 - 12:22 pm:

Don Kirtley came up sunday to look things over ,and I am sure glad he did we were having a look in the transmission when he spotted a nut about to fall off !! .i don't remember for sure but think it was the clutch band adjuster nut . we also discovered a broken brake shoe ,worn axle bearings ,and keys . im going to need to check the thrust washers too . Don also let me drive his 16' touring saturday during a history tour of old route 66 cajon pass area what a blast . pics coming soon .. Mike


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Monday, March 21, 2016 - 12:32 pm:

Dons 16' what a car! I got to drive this in its natural environment ! What a treat. Thanks for all the help Don all the advice and parts are really helping me to keep moving forward with this project. From radiator hoses to a spare wheel , and generator parts .


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Monday, March 21, 2016 - 12:32 pm:

Dons 16' what a car! I got to drive this in its natural environment ! What a treat. Thanks for all the help Don all the advice and parts are really helping me to keep moving forward with this project. From radiator hoses to a spare wheel , and generator parts .


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By G.R.Cheshire on Monday, March 21, 2016 - 01:03 pm:

Michael: Congrats on your progress so far looking very good and it sounds like you are having a lot of fun doing it. When driving a Model "T" keep this in the back of your mind "Stopping in a Model "T" is not an emergency it is a well planned and executed event. If it becomes an emergency what were you doing when you should have been paying attention?" Keep your head on a swivel but above all have FUN!:-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Monday, March 21, 2016 - 06:07 pm:

Machael,
At 175 lbs you are probably OK to sit on the tank. Apparently some of the factory workers were heavier than that, so some cars came with dented tanks! :-)
Aaahh! Red wheels and hubs with stainless spokes--My eyes, my eyes!!
:-) Very nice looking car actually!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Monday, March 21, 2016 - 07:42 pm:

G.R. , every move needs to be thought out since im newb to model T's ..the clutch brake throttle , wait back off throttle shift by lifting foot oops didn't push just rite to stop , and definitely stopping is planned way far in advance especially while going downhill ! Very very fun though .


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Monday, March 21, 2016 - 07:53 pm:

some of today's progress hopefully the body stays on this time . The door looks ok but the seat pan isn't square... seat pan square starter hole and door don't work, OH this is fun (at least I keep telling myself that ).If you don't do this in excactely the correct order you get to disassemble , and do it all over again after doing whatever you didn't do before ...haaa! .


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Monday, March 21, 2016 - 09:22 pm:

Michael,

You are making great progress! A quick comment about your right front door. Below is a photo you posted earlier and I do not remember seeing any comments (ok – how quick we can forget) and I didn’t read them all again.



Notice how the door on your car has an outside door handle and a piece of wood on top of the door. Below is a typical USA Ford produced door 1915-1925 door from our 1918 touring:



Any right front open car touring or roadster door from 1915 to 1925 will interchange with some minor fitting to any 1915-1925 touring or roadster. The inside door handle design changed some over the years. The door hinges changed 1925 model year or end of 1924 model year. So did the striker plate and a couple of other minor items over time.

There are many possibilities on why your door has that outside handle and the piece of wood on top of the door. One possibility that came to my mind was that perhaps at one time it was fitted with an aftermarket hard top. Several makers produced them. And like many folks refer to all tissues as Kleenex many folks call any of the aftermarket hard tops a California Top. Below is an advertisement of one aftermarket style:



I apologize, I don't recall who posted the advertisement above. Similar ones are shown at the posting at: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/80257/116333.html Most have the door handle in the wood strip/plank above the door so that when the top is fitted it will work the inside handle of the door from the outside. But that advertisement above may have a handle going through the original Model T door? It is hard to tell. And of course advertisements sometimes have artist illustrations that are not accurate (for example the 1915 brochure that shows the electric headlamps floating in the air – the illustrator forgot to put the stems on the lamps).

The one below was posted by Dan Treace -- thanks Dan!



Any way, as you continue to work on your body – keep an eye out and see if you have any other California style hard top pieces. And if not, you may want to convert the door back to the original configuration or leave it like it is. It will be a great conversation starter.

Again great progress!

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Tuesday, March 22, 2016 - 12:08 pm:

that is very interesting Hap , i also have no parts that match this car for a top . but there are holes in the seat pan .and i have some pieces , but none appear to bolt to pan ,and the body in their current configuration . the irons that go to seat pan and body that i have appear to be several inches too long ? I will post pics so you can see . maybe i'm looking at it all wrong ,but the wood on the door is something different alright .


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Tuesday, March 22, 2016 - 01:14 pm:

ok my phone is dead so pics will come soon . the wood on the door has 2 small bolts or large screws going down into door . the driver side has the same hole's in approx the same location for approx the same size hardware ? and looking at the original wood the holes are also there .


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Tuesday, March 22, 2016 - 03:40 pm:

top of door . and driver side showing holes ? .


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Tuesday, March 22, 2016 - 03:54 pm:

the top pic shows where the iron attaches . Here's the thing the wood is too thick being inside and out to allow proper use of the parts for the folding top . Being a Newb here its possible I'm looking at wrong . These are so Hap can see possible koupet evidence .


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Tuesday, March 22, 2016 - 03:58 pm:

the top edge pass side appears to be cut off . Drivers side looks hacked up also but different . I'll get a pic of that .


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Tuesday, March 22, 2016 - 04:44 pm:

you can see some very old wood at the location where this piece goes (I think ) it doesn't appear to have ever had anything there before ? And why is driver side so wierd and bent up . Like that ? I haven't changed anything nor plan to until I know more


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Tuesday, March 22, 2016 - 09:11 pm:

New tubes came in from lunch as tires of Long Beach Ca. 1 business day tube dates show Feb 16 so thy are fresh . Tires look like August 15 .


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Tuesday, March 22, 2016 - 09:20 pm:

Lucas tires long beach ca. Auto correct is a pain . They are fresh ....smart phone? Really?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Wednesday, March 23, 2016 - 06:23 am:

Michael,

Thank you for posting the additional photos. Below is the one you posted of the inside view of your door.



Base on that photo and the others you posted I would give it a 100% chance that you car had some sort of accessory “hard top” or at least accessory windows that mounted to the door (and false door).

Hopefully someone will recognize that accessory door handle and say, “I saw one of those on so-and-so’s car etc.

Note I posted the Koupet California top advertisements as an example of the accessory hard tops that were sold. I do not know enough about them to say the parts on your car were or were not from one of their kits. But I would like to hear from any Koupet California top owners to see if they had a similar bracket with a notch on the door and what type of handle they had to open the door.

And yes it looks like some of the sheet metal at the front of the body on the passenger side was cut away for some reason.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Wednesday, March 23, 2016 - 12:43 pm:

Thanks Hap . i've sent a message to the previous owner asking about the top . did you see march 22 at 4:44 the pic showing the driver side metal also modified by being bent up flat . i guess now i need to find all the parts to make a 21 roadster runabout top . Being in southern California . i can probably get away with no top for a while ,but i will be looking for all the pieces to put this puzzle together ...Mike


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Friday, March 25, 2016 - 01:12 am:

The previous owner said he never had a top so I need to put together all the piece's to build a top I only have bottom iron pieces that fit from the seat pan to body , and the angles are wrong . Except 1 part it was still attached drivers side but someone cut it off flush ??. Here's a pic of angle difference .


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Friday, March 25, 2016 - 01:31 am:

the wood is at a point where i can button the body back together it's very strong now .I'm very confidant in the fit of the body to the wood it's snug , and much better than I thought it would be.... whew! original wood was bad but I was able to make out a seat pan support that doubles as a storage compartment .it was original to the car so I duplicated it besides it's cool .looks like a jack , gloves ,and tool roll will fit in there .the wood near the tank comes out easily so if the tank needs work it's not a problem . Has anyone ever seen that ? Maybe it's a Baudet body thing ? Or its normal ? I tried to find a picture or reference to it , but nothing .


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Duey_C on Saturday, March 26, 2016 - 02:33 pm:

Fantastically interesting mods done to that body so many years ago!
Did you guys notice that perfect ring/rib/shoulder (raised area) right around the outside of the door handle stem?
It looks very nice so I may guess that the door skin is a replacement or perhaps the owner removed the door in the Cali top install, marked the door for the handle and used the included punch-forming tool on the anvil, punching the stem hole and forming the ring. Am I thinking crazy?
Cool puzzle!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Duey_C on Saturday, March 26, 2016 - 02:59 pm:

Shoot. I forgot to blab that I've seen threads here about the storage space behind the tank on the 2 person T's. Yours looks perfect.
I did find one link but others may be better at sniffing out threads here. One other thread mentioned small storage on the ends of the tank too. :-)
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/50893/70047.html?1224727871


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Saturday, March 26, 2016 - 03:11 pm:

Duey thanks, the door handle is a washer type thing it looks good though ,finished looking . thanks for the link .


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Dufault on Saturday, March 26, 2016 - 03:45 pm:

Michael,
Nice work.

I haven't seen any words about the tire pressure you used when you experienced the torn stem.
Clincher tires require considerably more pressure to prevent the tire from rotating on the rim. Some of us use 65 psi. I've not seen nor heard of anyone using less than 50 psi., and just a couple of those folks.
Just mentioning this as I'd not like to see you damage those new tubes.

Enjoy!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Sunday, March 27, 2016 - 01:41 am:

thanks Dave , I still need 2 more or 3 more new tires for a good set and spare . looking closely at the old ones i think failure is certain . if i drive anywhere it will be here just on my street at less than 20 mph until all 4 are new.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Sunday, March 27, 2016 - 08:21 pm:

it took a couple very frustrating days to get to this all glued and screwed . It is the wood that came with car . Now I want to build a little pickup bed . Have it like a slip on bed 4ft long , and however wide it works out without removing fender support.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Sunday, March 27, 2016 - 08:38 pm:

actually only as wide as the deck is should be about rite .


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Sunday, March 27, 2016 - 09:44 pm:

Michael,

Recommend you check out the posting Wooden Pick-up Bed Plans & Hardware brochure? at:
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/179374/221961.html?1310137768 The early original plans are right there.

Those same early plans were published in the "Vintage Ford." A few years later some updated hardware plans were published with minor modifications by Cliff Nordstrom - his pickup body is shown below:



If you or anyone else would like a free digital copy of those plans, please drop me a note with your e-mail address. If you click on my name it brings up my profile and my e-mail is the 3rd line down. Or you can send a PM (private message) through the forum. If you put "Send wooden pickup bed plans" in the title or Model T Ford in the title it will not be deleted by mistake.

The club allows us to share those to promote or club and hobby.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Monday, March 28, 2016 - 01:46 am:

Thank you Hap , I need to see those plans .I just mocked up some scrap wood to see if I like it . I'd probably use it as a pickup now n then for errands close by,grocery getter more often as a pickup here's a pic .I will keep it all reversible . I really like model t roadster pickups .


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Monday, March 28, 2016 - 06:53 am:

Michael,

I've e-mailed the plans. Keep up the good work!

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Monday, March 28, 2016 - 04:55 pm:

thanks Hap , Hap i have a question for you, or anyone that can help . i posted it on the forum also (roadster body iron help). since i have no top or body irons ,except 1 driver side back thats been cut off at the body . what do i need to put it back to a roadster ? none of the stuff i have fits the car . i guess the previous owner was trying to find the parts by randomly buying body irons . i could modify the back ones to work (i have a welder here) ,but i dont want to alter valuable or possibly rare parts . also i think its best to have the correct parts ....Mike


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Garnet on Monday, March 28, 2016 - 05:46 pm:

Some folk just have way more fun than they outta!

Garnet


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Monday, March 28, 2016 - 08:44 pm:

Ok here's pictures . I have alot of parts for touring cars I think since the back seat rise angle is differentHere you can see the angles are different. You maybe can see the hole in the seat pan in the top 1st pic. The 1 with correct angle was cut off it was still attached when I got the car.i have 6 body irons for the j hook or top rest with the wrong angle like the 2nd pic ,and 1 correct angle but hacked off.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Monday, March 28, 2016 - 08:55 pm:

the 1st pic you can see the when the holes are lined up the angle is different the cut off one is correct .The bottom pic is some of the parts I have that have wrong angle.I could easily take a wedge slice out of the ones with wrong angle then weld back up . Or I think it seems reasonably easy enough to do a clean job of it . I have a few extra ones to experiment with . Are these common enough to hack up ?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Monday, March 28, 2016 - 09:14 pm:

I also have these I think they are for a touring car not a roadster ?.again if I need ti could cut off and add the correct threads or are the rite parts easy enough to find? Any information you can provide is appreciated . I am in southwest ca. So a top isn't really a necessity for now , but eventually for a complete car .


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Tuesday, March 29, 2016 - 10:33 pm:

Michael,

I did some looking but I never found a really good photo of the roadster top irons. There is a discussion at: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/411944/411991.html?1388593223 . That may be helpful or not.

It also includes a diagram with the dimensions on a 1915-1922 Roadster. But it doesn’t give you the dimensions you need so you know what you need if you go to a swap meet etc.



The Roadster/Runabout parts are basically compatible 1915-1922. Below is a page from the Sep 1, 1923 Price List of Body Parts page 4. The short body iron 8401X should be the one that fits either side and is what the runabout top pivots on. The longer irons have a left and right and would be the ones that hold the top hold down parts. I suspect the short irons got shorter over time as they evolved into the ones used on the 1923-25 roadsters.

Hopefully someone with a 1917-1922 roadster will add some information. I think a metal seat framed 1915-1916 roadster would be very similar.

Note if any of your body irons have a number cast into them, we might be able to figure out what year and body style they fit, if the cast number is the factory number -- which it usually is.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Wednesday, March 30, 2016 - 12:32 am:

Thank You again Hap , the one body iron that fits ,but was cutoff only has a B where the others have a number ?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Thursday, March 31, 2016 - 11:12 am:

The head needed to come off again because I found a small water leak at the back of head . I drained the coolant , and ran the engine several short times in case any went into cylinders . I'm glad I did that as there is evidence of water getting into #1 cylinder. No damage to report .I also checked all the valves and seats , and decided to do a quick lap .Also Don lent me a nice antique Milwaukee seat cutter to put a proper resurface on # 3 ex. That got dinged up from a stuck valve removal.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Thursday, March 31, 2016 - 11:20 am:

Don also had a nice Ford script manifold I cleaned the script with a wire brush to make sure it was crisp with paint he also found some rings and the copper gland packing .


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Thursday, March 31, 2016 - 11:33 am:

I don't recall if I re torqued the head last time . So this time the block was dressed with a fine file just the bolt area was proud , the head had a couple proud spots too I was unable to get a 2 thou feeler under the straight edge before reassembly the bolt holes with be chased and checked for depth... This manifold came out so nice I just know she's gonna run smooth as a sewing machine.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Friday, April 01, 2016 - 02:42 am:

I Han a new ex pipe , and a new muffler in the parts pile.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Friday, April 01, 2016 - 02:50 am:

I thought it went well , but an ex leak the #4 cyl I guess it is warped . Don warned me about that . Oh well I guess that's common . I took off just the ex man then put a gasket . It worked for a while then the tshi tshi tshi sound of an ex leak .


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Friday, April 01, 2016 - 03:17 am:

The new muffler is louder ..This car drives pretty good . Seems to want to go ,


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Duey_C on Saturday, April 02, 2016 - 01:33 am:

Yum yum! Looking good!
Cute little Ford (maybe pickup) next to the old pickup (Yum yum).


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Saturday, April 02, 2016 - 08:29 pm:

thanks Duey ,its a 57 chevy 3100 short bed original v8 , and looking awfully neglected . it runs and drives too


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Sunday, April 03, 2016 - 11:09 pm:

I noticed the drivers front tire was flat so I aired it up . The Shrader was leaking so I backed it out then re tightend it. The core popped out of the rubber ! ?? Maybe it was too old ? So thanks to Don once again , Thank you Don Kirtley ! I would not be this far without your help !! For a nice looking wheel and a really nice heavy tube from Canada ,the seat cutter ,the gaskets, the generator parts , the intake manifold , radiator hoses and pipe, the loan of books , and the technical advice I really appreciate it .. ..i had a new Riverside tire from vet nam in stock so now 2 new tires and tubes .. I had to pull manifolds off again and order new parts. A ex manifold, copper ,gaskets ,rings , packing nut and studs all from Langs on the way ..I also drained the oil again Goin to put a gallon of cheap stuff to run for a short while then flush it again ,no water but smelled like gas ? Fuel washing maybe ? Not blowing smoke?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Don Kirtley on Monday, April 04, 2016 - 12:42 am:

Mike are you going to have it ready for the"T"rodeo on the 23rd??. Don


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Monday, April 04, 2016 - 02:25 am:

Don I sure hope so , its a 1 step forward 2 or 3 back kind of build i drove up n down my street a couple times what a blast but the exhaust leak was getting real loud just pulled the manifolds off #4 port is just shy of 1/4 inch low . the head has been off twice . I think I'll be ready . waiting on the parts now . so mounted tire ,adjusted valves again,drained oil , more wood fab ..lots misc. stuff . hey Don that tube you gave me was really heavy duty thick rubber ,it says Made in Canada where do you get those ?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Don Kirtley on Monday, April 04, 2016 - 05:16 pm:

Mike I believe I got those from Lucas tires.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Monday, April 04, 2016 - 07:59 pm:

Mine came from Lucas made in India . Maybe there's another option when you order ? here's a couple of the dash that came from Canada .I have no original dash yet the PO. Is hard to get a hold of ...he's got the one for the car . Getting it seems iffy so got this from Canada it fits wierd.if I put the edge up over cowl it doesn't fit flush . I have never seen the dash in or its different from Canada ?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Monday, April 04, 2016 - 08:12 pm:

It has a v shaped bump out in the middle where there is also a hole that lines up with the one in the cowl . maybe I need to trim the edges where the windshield pillars are ? Then maybe open the other holes a bit it might go down flush ? It does look real good with 1 coat of polyurethane on it choke knob , and the switch plate in . :-)what are the holes left of steering colum for?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Monday, April 04, 2016 - 08:22 pm:

Its the wrong dash ! ahhhh!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Monday, April 04, 2016 - 08:44 pm:

or does it go up under the cowl maybe ? the one that came outta this car is in the PO's shed wish i could get ahold of him and it ...its perfect no holes the paint even looks good.he sent me a pic now i cant get return messages from him :-(


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Monday, April 04, 2016 - 11:16 pm:

I any ideas what the holes here were for ? The dash came from Canada. It fits alot better then the first time I tried ...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Tuesday, April 05, 2016 - 08:17 am:

Michael,

My "GUESS" is you have a dash panel for a slant windshield rather than a straight windshield car. I don't have a slant windshield car so I can't just go out to look. And I looked for photos but I didn't find one yet. Note the USA went to the slant windshield on the open cars in 1923 model year. But Ford of Canada went there in 1920 or 1921 depending on the reference you read. So a 1921 Canadian dash would have been for a slant windshield.

See: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/599638/618419.html?1459826171 where Phil Mino (a very knowledgeable T person) stated, "The restyling of the windshield for 1923-5, the instrument panel board had kicked up ends and mounted over the lip on the cowl." In that posting he shows both the early 1919-1922 and the later 1923-25 USA style dash.

Anyone know the part number and / or name of that item so I can find it in the parts book? I suspect the Canadian 1920 or 1921 to 1925 may possibly be the same factory number/part number as the USA 1923-1925 panel. And I would like to check that.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Phil Mino, near Porterville on Tuesday, April 05, 2016 - 08:56 am:

Try this link:

details


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Tuesday, April 05, 2016 - 12:14 pm:

Thanks Phil , and Hap I found the pic from po.of original dash from this car .It appears to be the same style as what I found, but perfect with no holes.you can also see the floors there.the po has had a family illness to deal with so getting the parts back with car have been challenging so far .I'm trying to be sensitive to his situation , and give him time .he's a really good guy eventually I hope to get the original parts.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Tuesday, April 05, 2016 - 12:23 pm:

Michael,

You've got the correct dash. It was just installed wrong the first time, but you figured that out. The extra holes were for any number of accessories someone thought they needed at some point. That big washer you've got under the center bolt shouldn't be there.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Wednesday, April 06, 2016 - 07:30 am:

Actually I still cannot tell if he does or does not have the correct dash. Not that I need to know. But I would guess the question will come up again in the future and it would be nice to be able to share some photos that clearly show the difference. Looking at Phil’s posting at: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/599638/618419.html?1459826171 I would have concluded that Mike's dash was the later 1923-25 (actually 1923 since it doesn't have the holes for the rivets used for the 1924-25 steering column bracket).

Can someone please post some photos that highlight the difference? Or do they both look very similar and you need to have a ruler to tell the difference or have one of each to see the difference? (For example the higher 1915-1920 front seat touring heel panel versus the lower 1921-1925 touring front seat heel panel look similar but one is higher for the round gas tank and the other is lower for the oval gas tank.)

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Phil Mino, near Porterville on Wednesday, April 06, 2016 - 08:03 am:

Hap -

You simply have to compare the outer edges of the panels to see the difference. The earlier panel is rectangular; the later one "kicks up" (or narrows) at the ends.

The method of mounting also differs and the screw holes on the later panel align with those in the new windshield posts used on the slant windshield models.

As stated earlier, the early versions of the later panel do not have the steering column support riveted in place.

dash-1


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By brian lawrence on Wednesday, April 06, 2016 - 11:37 am:

Hi Michael. Great looking car and good progress. BTW, I noticed a knobby tire on your shop floor and your FMF hat. Are you a dirtbiker?.....brian


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Wednesday, April 06, 2016 - 12:25 pm:

Thanks for all the info Phil ,and Hap i thought I had responded already . i did get the dash in ,. and found a couple 1/4 inch round head screws . that look correct .Brian hello ,yes I ride dirtbikes ,we live in the High desert Socal.2012 KTM exc 500 with custom suspension so i can actually mx it ,and a 05 crf250r for my Lady .who races desert .


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By brian lawrence on Wednesday, April 06, 2016 - 12:33 pm:

Cool! I just bought a 2016 xc 300. Crashed it 3 weeks ago ended up with a plate and 9 screws in collarbone. Race enduros and harescrambles here in wi and MN. Model t,s are a little slower than KTM,s but Aton of fun. My next t will be an open car. ....brian


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Wednesday, April 06, 2016 - 05:01 pm:

Brian , we've got a 2010 300 also . we were racing the national Hare n hounds but switched to club enduro stuff. I hope you heal up good . after a couple of concusions and wishing i broke my colar bone instead of complete separation , I have been slowing down I'm thinking the Model T is perfect ! just trail ride now ,but that Montana 500 sure looks interesting .


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Wednesday, April 06, 2016 - 05:13 pm:

I had some old solid oak flooring , and decided to do this .need metal parts to do the rest . I know it's supposed to be black , but it looks so nice bright .


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Wednesday, April 06, 2016 - 05:29 pm:

Phil,

Thank you so much for the clarification.

Michael,

Keep up the good work!

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Thursday, April 07, 2016 - 10:27 pm:

I took apart the headlights , and thought the reflectors were shot .After reading how to clean with hot water salt, baking soda , and tin foil I gave it a try.just when I thought it failed to work I wiped the reflector with a microfiber towel . They are serviceable for sure , not perfect though.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Thursday, April 07, 2016 - 10:41 pm:

I made a couple panels for a very lightweight slip on truck box .I figure it's only gonna haul a couple dogs , and maybe a cooler .maybe just maybe it might haul some dog eared cedar fencing just for fun as I have literally 4 other vehicles capable of that .including a quad cab long bed Dodge Ram Cummins .I could probably put the T on that beast and haul it without a trailer ..anyway a lightweight slip on for the roadster . I will still fix up the turtle deck trunk.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Thursday, April 07, 2016 - 11:04 pm:

I ordered all new parts for the exhaust system just waiting on the manifold .When Don Kirtley came over he pointed out a cracked -broken brake shoe and worn keys in the axle . So I ordered some lined shoes .I got the keys , and some seals they are modern ones .Also all the other parts to yank the rear apart and reassemble everything if there are no real issues .The thrust washers are backordered . It's a pleasure dealing with Langs , I have not ordered from other sources yet though. I like the 2 piece lined shoes in case they're needed for an actual brake .


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Friday, April 08, 2016 - 06:30 pm:

The cracked shoe and where it was contacting the drum ...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Friday, April 08, 2016 - 06:44 pm:

I chose the lined 2 piece the first attempt had a dragging sound so start over. I moved the springs toward the inside of shoes, and put a washer outside of the shoes on the bolt . Wheel on no more funny noises and didn't even have to adjust the brakes they are perfect . I then checked online to see if the subtle changes were normal ... ok


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Friday, April 08, 2016 - 06:49 pm:

I replaced the keys also , this is too cool...so I saw one of these made into this I had to do it too!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Sunday, April 10, 2016 - 10:39 pm:

Built this truck bed while o wait on parts


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Sunday, April 10, 2016 - 11:05 pm:

Michael,

It is looking good!

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Sunday, April 10, 2016 - 11:43 pm:

Warped exhaust manifold?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Monday, April 11, 2016 - 02:25 am:

There is an odd hole in the splash apron just behind the center body mount it was from the thru bolt to hold the turtle deck down .. I guess it was too long ? I need to cut it off , but leave just enough to get a nut on it to be able to swap between the bed and turtle deck trunk easily ..


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Monday, April 11, 2016 - 02:28 am:

oh and ignore the phillips screws they are temporary ,i just picked up round head screws with a standard slot today :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Monday, April 11, 2016 - 04:20 pm:

Yes Steve ex manifold was off more than 1/8th less than a 1/4 ..enough to be a problem.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Duey_C on Tuesday, April 12, 2016 - 08:42 pm:

Wowee! Fantastic progress on your pickup! That box looks great!
Would you do me a favor and click/post a pic of one of the left or right mounts for that (accessory?) rear axle support rod that goes under the differential? There's something about that look that gets me. Probably due for a love of the earlier Fords... :-)

I like those brake shoes. :-)
I bought mine from a different vendor and the linings are held on with adhesive instead of rivets but it sure stops on a dime. Well, 10-20 dimes.....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Wednesday, April 13, 2016 - 12:18 am:

Thanks , I just got the manifolds back on and new fuel bulb she is running sweet .This new muffler is too loud though .


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Wednesday, April 13, 2016 - 12:35 am:

ok Duey , but i don't think its a very effective part . it doesn't clamp tight enough at the ends ,and i think the axle is well supported by the springs anyway , but they look good when they are straight .pic is coming


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Wednesday, April 13, 2016 - 12:55 am:

so the one thing I didn't clean , and pant is what you want to see ...Haa! Ok so it looks very similar to chain link fence type hardware to me . It could easily be fabbed up with basic tools , and I wouldn't be at all surprised if the clamps that go around axle could be found in a hardware store .


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Wednesday, April 13, 2016 - 01:02 am:

I thought I had a different picture of Don Kirtley,'s 1916 touring , but this will have to do I've only seen 2 in person this one is only 3 miles from my house


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Wednesday, April 13, 2016 - 01:05 am:

She just keeps running better and better !


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Duey_C on Wednesday, April 13, 2016 - 01:36 am:

Mike, you've seen pics of my little Ford. You know I like "workin' clothes" pieces of history, especially "patina'd" units. :-)

Those are darned close to fence parts.... Yet, see the wider part at the top or am I losing my mind? Well, ya! I'm losing my mind! :-)
Thanks much and I see the mounts are held back by the rivets.

Wonderful pic!
Thanks much! :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Wednesday, April 13, 2016 - 02:47 am:

Looks like the bulbs orient vertically oh well ......She's Alive! I love it headlights just seem like they give the old cars life ... What do you think ? Check out the cowl lamps Don hooked me up with ... they look sweet on there! Exhaust all hooked up , new fuel bulb on NO LEAKS!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Wednesday, April 13, 2016 - 02:55 am:

Yea Duey , I'll get more pics when I take it off there to straighten it , and see if it can be secured better . Yes the rivets keep it from just sliding . This one doesn't have any guide type u shaped part on the diff housing either like I have seen pics of others .


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Wednesday, April 13, 2016 - 08:04 pm:

Michael S, Wow, you are making great progress! I wish I could be doing half that well on my runabout.

Are you using the standard T transmission brake as your service brake and the inside rear as parking/emergency? That is one of my favorite ways to drive a model T. If driven properly, the transmission brake works well 99.9 percent of the time. I DO NOT recommend the original style cast iron onto steel drums rear brakes (what it looks like in the photo of what you used to have). They are WAY TOO destructive if you have to or want to use them while moving. The inside lined cast iron shoes, IF properly set up and adjusted right are very adequate. The only real downside to them over good outside accessory brakes is that the braking surface is much smaller, and wear out a lot faster than the outside brakes do. However, they are also easier to change and maintain than the transmission brake, so I use the brake handle and inside rear brakes a lot of the time for routine stops. Just for practice's sake, you should use the brake handle for stopping a fair amount so that you will be used to using it when (not if) an emergency need arises. If the rear inside lined brakes are properly set up, you should be able to lock both rear wheels easily if you have to. With a little practice, you should be able to control the rear wheels enough for maximum two-wheel braking power and control. (Simply locking the rear wheels can throw you into a skid!)

I noticed above that you make major purchases at Snyder's. I certainly am not in any way opposed to Snyder's. But I notice also that you live in Southern Califunny. I have been in Northern Califunny most of my life, and as such have met and to some extent known both Glen and Mark Chaffin for a long time. I highly recommend that you get to know them and give them some of your business. Dave, who usually answers the phone when I call the Garage, is also a good one to get to know. All great people in the hobby.

I have enjoyed following your progress! Keep up the good work!
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Wednesday, April 13, 2016 - 11:24 pm:

Hi Wayne thanks , i have very very little time driving a T not quite an hour .the brakes or parking brake is the 2 piece lined shoes from Langs . i like the idea of using the hand brake if needed and using it in practice after using up the engine braking when coming to a stop . the parts pile included most of what i needed so far , I did find a Chaffins parts book in a box of parts recently it now resides on my nightstand. besides ebay only used Langs . so far i have not ordered from Snyder's or Macs . I just share a last name with Snyder's.I was trying to order light bulbs from them but their website doesn't work rite .Wayne I see you have a few and at least 1 speedster ...very cool .I see your posts here and there ,and it's good to know your following my progress .thanks again Wayne i'm happy to receive advice from the veterans here . Mike


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Friday, April 15, 2016 - 12:28 am:

Working on the rest of the floor boards now that I have the metal bits .


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Friday, April 15, 2016 - 12:30 am:

Finishing it bright for now


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Saturday, April 16, 2016 - 12:24 am:

I was a able to go to Bakersfield for a about 4 hours or so Friday morning I've never been to anything like that I would have liked to spend a couple days at least , and a lot more money as it is I spent more than what I brought , but came away with this top ..from what I can tell it's the correct irons . The back window is not , or is material long enough in the back but is in pretty good shape no rust , and the material is in very good usable shape with a couple mods :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Duey_C on Tuesday, April 19, 2016 - 10:22 pm:

Now I'm officially jealous! ;-)
Your first swap meet and you find a whole top for your runabout/pickup.....
Too darned cool. :-) With your luck I should've asked you to keep an eye out for the next newer style top for me... Great find. :-)
That floor looks great! I JUST NOW realized that you're re-using oak flooring! Yippee!
Now I'm tempted to copy-cat you and actually put a real floor in my runabout/pickup (used maple flooring of course). Oh wait, I'd need the risers. :-/
Great work and progress!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Wednesday, April 20, 2016 - 09:51 pm:

uh oh ! laying rite next to that top was a newer one,no kidding i have the mans business card . he's from Arizona . shipping would be pretty hi ,if he still has it .


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Rogers - South of the Adirondacks on Thursday, April 21, 2016 - 09:27 am:

Michael- can I have that guy's contact info please? I need a top for my 23 Runabout.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Friday, April 22, 2016 - 02:29 pm:

Tim , Scott Parsons :PARSONS736@MSN.COM 520-237-0499 . he's in Tuscon AZ.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Saturday, April 23, 2016 - 01:24 am:

Well there she is all snug in the toyhauler . We're going down to Riverside to participate in a Gym canna put on by the Riverside Corona model T club . I'm happy I'm going to be around alot of experience for the first outing ...she runs pretty good :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Saturday, April 23, 2016 - 08:41 pm:

My niece, and nephew Named her Lilly T . She took a 4th , and a 2nd, and the overall ...!!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Sunday, April 24, 2016 - 04:28 pm:

some pics from the Riverside event


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Duey_C on Sunday, April 24, 2016 - 06:45 pm:

There's a trend showing. :-)
Congrats on the show!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Sunday, April 24, 2016 - 09:30 pm:

Hey Duey ! I've been having so much fun driving around I need to register and insure this sweet ride . I'm going to install a modern temp guage just to get to know where it's at , and get a windshield. I'm finding it's hard to not smile while driving a Model T , and for those seeing one driving .


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Duey_C on Monday, April 25, 2016 - 01:40 am:

Ain't it the truth. :-)
The parts you need will fall into your lap!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Monday, April 25, 2016 - 02:27 pm:

Michael,
Did you notice this pic posted by Jay? It's on a touring body, but the back door handle sure resembles yours;
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/599638/636910.html?1461593942


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Tuesday, April 26, 2016 - 02:17 am:

That does look like the door handle ...alot . I was looking at the type or build style to get an idea if it was possibly the same type of mods that were done to this sheetmetal ..


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