Colossal failure mating engine and warford in TT

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: Colossal failure mating engine and warford in TT
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Bartol on Sunday, February 28, 2016 - 05:05 pm:

Well, I hoped to have the engine and warford in place today, but it didn't quite happen. I mounted the warford to the shortened drive tube (cast iron old warford and older shortened tube and shaft) with minimal issue, but the transmission seemed to hang at a weird angle (pitched down at the front). We figured that it would "level out" once the engine was mated. We got the engine into the frame, but just can't seem to get them all pushed together; we have about an inch or more between the engine mount and the hole in the frame for the bolt.

I measured the tube against the old one it 12 inches are removed (74 vs 62 inches). Anyone have any suggestions?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Burger in Spokane on Sunday, February 28, 2016 - 05:33 pm:

My Grandad always told us kids "If you can't fix it with the hammer you got, get a bigger hammer".

Born in 1903, he was well acquainted with Model T's.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Sunday, February 28, 2016 - 05:34 pm:

The rear springs are quite strong on a TT.
Sometimes it's easier to get everything together if the rear spring clamps are loosened on a T - maybe that would help on a TT too, then tighten everything up when the driveline is together and the engine in position.

Do you have something holding up the front end of the Warford in position for the mating with the engine - and a crossmember holding up its rear?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Barrett in Auburn Ca. on Sunday, February 28, 2016 - 06:40 pm:

The cast iron three speed Warford requires a shaft shortened 15 3/4" if it is complete. This means there is an extension housing with a u joint on the front. If the front housing and joint has been removed, it will be closer to 12 inches but will not work properly, for a couple reasons. One, it's too heavy to bolt onto the T engine without the joint in between and the rear support crossmember it is supposed to have. Secondly, the input shaft of the Warford is smaller than the output of the T. This is because the T U joint is different sizes front and rear. Try a T U joint on the front shaft of your Warford. If it fits properly then this is the problem, and there are two ways to deal with it, one good and one not so good.
The aluminum Warford uses a shaft shortened 12"
When you try to install the engine, sometimes the clutch lever will hang up on the cam on the brake shaft about an inch before the mount holes line up. Maybe it's something that easy.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Billy Phillips on Sunday, February 28, 2016 - 06:59 pm:

Cut and extend the frame 12" Don't cut the drive tube. And add to brake rods, and exhaust pipe. I had a TT with a Warford.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John McGinnis in San Jose area, CA. on Sunday, February 28, 2016 - 07:11 pm:

Like I suggested in a previous thread...install the engine, connect the cast iron Warford with its bracket....then connect the rear end/torque tube/U-joint. This is where you disconnect the spring shackles and roll the rear end. Assume you cut the drive shaft to the correct length.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Bartol on Sunday, February 28, 2016 - 10:41 pm:

The cast iron one has the extended housing on the front and the U joint. I would've thought it was short enough since it came with the tranny. All the images I see online show trannies butted right up the back of the engine without the housing. I'll have to look more at this.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Monday, February 29, 2016 - 12:07 am:

The aluminum cased Warford's you could do that, the input shaft mates up and that's how they were made.
People do attach the cast iron with out the intermediate housing but Erik described above the input shaft on the trans. and the hole in the tail shaft are not the same size. Some of those same people also just hang that hunk of cast iron transmission off the back without any support. LOL

There are exceptions to everything. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Monday, February 29, 2016 - 12:11 am:

By the way, sounds like your drive shaft and tube were left too long because someone didn't know how to do the job right or were using the aluminum cased one.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Bartol on Sunday, May 15, 2016 - 01:40 pm:

Ok, we're back on track to get the warford installed. Can someone tell me exactly how long the shaft and tube should be? I know I have to take 15 3/4 inches off an original, but these were cut down already and I want to make sure I get the correct measurements. Thanks!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Barrett in Auburn Ca. on Sunday, May 15, 2016 - 03:21 pm:

Chris, here is what you need for cast Warford. The shaft is 56" long not including the sleeve at the rear. The tube is 60.25" not including the lip at the rear flange that registers with the housing. All this assumes shortening by 15.75". PM me if you need more help.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth in Alabama on Sunday, May 15, 2016 - 04:39 pm:

Chris how about post some pictures? It would really help everyone diagnose your problem before you go cutting anything.


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