My paternal grandparents first car. The house is where my Dad was born in 1922, and where our family lived until building a new house in the early 60's:
Hi Rob, So I see that you own a car older than your Dad,s. Hope things get better for you in the future. Scott
Nice picture and great family history.
But I have to ask...you know me Rob...Mr. Smart A@@...If your Grandfather played on the beach at the seashore would he be known as Sandy Claus?
No one said things were great on the farm.......
Dad said "oldtimers" called his dad "Klaus," the German pronunciation. Both my grandfather and great-grandfather were named "Claus." However, my dad's mother was from an English family (Fox and Bloodhart) so that was the end of naming boys Claus (maybe that's a good thing).
It is always nice to have photos of family from the past. And it is even nicer when they include a good view of the car.
It is believed that the brass trim on the lamps disappeared around Jun or Jul 1915 ref: http://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/doc15.htm
JUN 19, 1915 Acc. 575, Box 19, Ford Archives
Headlight door. Change from brass to black steel specified.
Depending on how fast that was implemented and how quickly the old style parts were used up, the car in the photo might be a very late 1915 or any of the 1916 model year cars.
If you happen to have any documentation on when the car was purchased that would give us another data point. The photo appears to have taken after Aug 1915 as the trees have lost their leaves etc.
And thank you for sharing the photo and the story.
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As Hap points out, we don't know exactly when the brass trim on the lamps began to disappear from production. The bad restoration habits of the '50s &'60s certainly do not help us a lot today. For more than twenty years, most cars were being restored to what people thought they should be, or what they wanted them to be. They should have been restored to what they were. Even the HCCA was at fault here. When I got into this hobby, they still judged whether a '15 or '16 T qualified by the brass trim on the lamps more than other real parts changes. I saw several cases where truly correct August '15s were disqualified, while June of '16 cars were allowed by changing the lamps on the car and having an early engine block sitting behind the garage (you needed to have an early enough block, but it did not have to be in the car). The first thing everybody did when they bought a late '15 or '16 was change all the lamp trim.
Because of all that, survivor data is practically useless in trying to determine when this change was accomplished. But I have been studying this detail for a long time. I don't know if my opinion means much or not? But it is built upon the opinions of others that sought correct restorations and lots of little points over many years. Yes, we know the official decision to drop the brass trim came down in June of '15. And it probably did take awhile to get through the supply chain. My belief is that probably almost all if not all cars had brass trim lamps through the month of June. There have been data points indicating a few cars MAY have had brass trim as late as September of '15, but even those are doubtful. Photographic evidence coupled with bills of sale indicate that most Ts built in August of '15 were already getting the black trim. Original August '15 sales literature shows black trim. There is an example shown in "From Here To Obscurity" (pages 138 & 139). Most of July, and early August of 1915 probably could go either way.
Rob, Great photo of a family Ford! We have a number of original photos of family with their cars. But none of the cars are Fords? I do wish I had a good picture of the '15 Dodge my maternal great grandfather had. We have a closeup of a car he had before that, but have not been able to identify it for certain. It could maybe be an Elmore, I think I heard he had had two of them.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2
Great photo of the family Rob. Not to derail your thread but last night I was looking through my grandfathers parts receipts, he kept track of everything. One of them was for side lights with brass doors for 1915 coupelet and the other was for brass headlight rings for 1915 coupelet. I'm going to take a guess that these two items were for his coupelet.
My coupelet is titled as a 15 but really is a sixteen. Grandpa was adamant that it was a 15.
According to Trent's research my 16 should have black painted steel trim rings for the headlights and sidelights correct? Car was assembled late November/early December 1915.
There can be some question about the Jun - Jul 1915 cars and if none, some (my preference), or all have the brass rims on the headlamps and brass trim on the side lamps, but for a USA produced Model T, in the Nov/Dec 1915 time frame it most surely would come from the factory with black and not brass rims on the headlamps and all black side lamps.
Ref: the MTFCI Sixth Edition Judging Guidelines, ref Bruce McCalley's book page 195, and his online at: http://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/1916.htm
Of course many references one upon a time stated the USA 1915 cars came with a brass bell hand Klaxon which was later proven to be incorrect. So if anyone has some examples to change that conclusion -- please share them.
But I think the receipts from your Grandfather purchasing brass trimmed lamps also support that the lamps are likely replacements.
Note if you can find some photos of the Coupelet when it was purchased by him, that may or may not shed some light on what it had on it when your Grandfather purchased the car. But from the Ford factory the evidence strongly supports by that late a date the brass trim was gone.
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Moving Hap's request to new post.
(Message edited by fbergski on March 10, 2016)
Great info on Grandpa Heyen's first car. Now if I am able to find it, I'll post my other (maternal) grandparents first car. I believe it was a 1914 T. Hopefully I will find the pic, and if I do i'll add it to this thread.