Clutch Adjustment Question

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: Clutch Adjustment Question
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Hoops - Burton,Texas on Wednesday, March 09, 2016 - 08:31 am:

I bought my '22 roadster from an old farmer in Luling, Texas in 1989. He said that it needed an oil change and that I should use one quart of MMO and 3 quarts of 30 wt motor oil. Several weeks later I did the oil change and went on a tour. The clutch slipped so badly that I aborted the tour. I have no idea what kind of clutch discs the car has.

I changed the oil several times using just 30 wt but the clutch continued to slip, although much less so. Next I tightened the three finger screws in the transmission evenly but I don't remember how many turns it took to eliminate the slipping. I have been driving the car this way ever since and it still drives nicely.

The problem is that after having tightened the clutch finger screws the clutch is so tight that the car is really hard to push and to hand crank. Also the starter works really hard to crank it. I finally tried to fix this after all these years by loosening the finger screws 1/2 turn each. After doing this the car is easy to push and hand crank but the clutch slips on hills.

I believe I could fix this if I could tighten the finger screws about 1/4 turn. Note that two of the finger screws are drilled for cotter keys and the other one is not. The two finger screws turn easily but the screw in the undrilled one is tight to move. The two finger screws can only be adjusted by 1/2 turn at a time when using the cotter keys.

I'm thinking about solving this issue with a little Loctite Blue but would welcome any other suggestions.

Thanks and all help will be appreciated.

Robert


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Wednesday, March 09, 2016 - 08:57 am:

Drill more holes?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Wednesday, March 09, 2016 - 09:03 am:

You need to lengthen the clutch disengagement link so that you have a free neutral after you get the clutch plates adjusted so there is no slippage.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Wednesday, March 09, 2016 - 09:03 am:

You need to lengthen the clutch disengagement link so that you have a free neutral after you get the clutch plates adjusted so there is no slippage.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Wednesday, March 09, 2016 - 09:12 am:

It may be time to install new transmission bands.
They do eventually wear out. Don't wait to long to do it or you will scar up the drums.
You didn't say if they had been replaced.
As far as you changing oil it might have been better to change the oil and leave out the MMO.

If I'm not mistaken MMO is not supposed to be used in a friction clutch situation.

It works great in gas for sure. Others will have all kind of opinions about this!

Its kind of like STP in a model T engine. It might stop it from smoking a while but the car wont go. The oil is to slick.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dean Yoder, Iowa City IA. on Wednesday, March 09, 2016 - 09:27 am:

Your clutch spring is probably week.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Wednesday, March 09, 2016 - 09:29 am:

Royce, can you post a link to your 2015 thread that showed you fabricating a longer low speed link? I tried searching for it via Google and came up empty, thanks! :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Wednesday, March 09, 2016 - 09:57 am:

Mark,

Here you go. Bands have nothing to do with this problem.

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/411944/478111.html?1410348928


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tony Bowker, Ramona, CA on Wednesday, March 09, 2016 - 12:13 pm:

If the clutch is slipping in Ford high, it has nothing to do with the bands.....
When you adjusted the three screws, did the external clutch arm still miss the brake cam? If it still misses, then it is probably a weak clutch spring. This can be replaced with the motor still in the car, see the Ford manual, though I much I prefer to have the motor out for such work.....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Hoops - Burton,Texas on Wednesday, March 09, 2016 - 02:17 pm:

Steve, thanks, drilling more holes should work but it would be hard for me to do (getting old with lots of arthritis and bad right shoulder). I could try winding a real thin short strip of foil in the threads.

Royce, thanks, Per your advise I first plan to adjust the link. Now there is a very small gap between the three fingers and the flange where they make contact. I believe that these should just touch each other.

John, thanks. I installed Kevlar bands on both of my T's about 10 years ago. Neither have been driven more than 1500 miles since then and the all of the bands look and feel good to me. Except for the first time in 1989, I've only used 30 or 10-30 wt oil in them.

Dean and Tony, thanks, the spring could be weak but when the fingers are over tightened there is no slippage.

I'm in Houston now doing therapy for two broken ligaments in my shoulder rotor cuff so it will take some time until I get back to fixing it.

Thanks again, Robert


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stephen D Heatherly on Wednesday, March 09, 2016 - 04:57 pm:

The bands have nothing to do with the high speed clutch so they cannot be the source of the problem. Sounds like the clutch pedal to release shaft linkage and the bolt in the release shaft are adjusted wrong. Adjust the clutch so that it does not slip anymore. Then remove the clevis pin that connects the clutch pedal to the clutch release shaft. Pull the pedal all the back and move the brake lever forward into the high gear position. Now adjust the clevis so that the hole in it lines up with the hole in the clutch release shaft. Slide in the clevis pin and check if there is a small amount of play in the pedal. If every thing is good install a cotter pin in the clevis pin and tight the jamb nut. Now push the pedal into the neutral position with your hand and pull the brake lever back. Run in the bolt on the release shaft until it touches the cam on the brake lever then go about 1/2 turn more and tighten the jamb nut.

Stephen


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Wednesday, March 09, 2016 - 05:27 pm:

After clutch finger tightening, normally you have to check the 'creep' of the warmed motor when in 'neutral' i.e. clutch/emerg. brake lever straight up. If the T creeps when in neutral, then turn the clutch lever bolt (or screw as it's called in the manual) to relive the creep to a minimum. I like to do this on level pavement, with motor running, turning the bolt to where the T creeps, then turn back to the minimum of creep. Now you know for sure the clutch isn't causing grab in 'neutral' when the clutch/emerg. brake lever is up so you can roll the car easy.

As for your three adj. screws in the clutch fingers, I would replace that odd screw without the cotter pin slot for a standard Ford screw. Since you wrote its hard to turn, could be it is now offsetting the clutch disc pack, since it is not a Ford screw and its dimensions are questionable, and could be the root cause of your clutch adjusting issue.

From there, the task is to re-set 'free neutral', that is checking low pedal tightness to be sure low band won't grab, making the car hard to roll, when the pedal is up.

Then follow the steps to adjust the clevis linkage to have a nice amount of play or free neutral, between high when the low pedal is up fully, and when the pedal is pushed down prior to engaging low gear speed.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Wednesday, March 09, 2016 - 09:42 pm:

I would start as Dan stated by changing that odd ball screw then set all three fingers back to their proper base line, then go from there. Also get that qt of MMO flushed out. :-) There should be a slot in the 3 finger adjusting screws not holes, you did mean slots not holes?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Hoops - Burton,Texas on Thursday, March 10, 2016 - 06:24 am:

Thank you Stephan, Dan and Mark

I misstated in my initial posting that the finger screws were drilled (sorry about that). In fact all three are slotted as they should be. The third finger is not drilled for whatever reason but screw is real tight to turn and couldn't possibly move without a lot of force so I feel safe to continue using it.

The MMO should be well flushed out after 27 years of driving and annual oil changes. Also the bands were replaced with Kevlar ones about 10 years ago.

I really appreciate all of this great information/help and hope to get into fixing this soon.

Today is a day for rehab and doctors visits so I might be out of touch for a while.

Thanks again, Robert


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stephen D Heatherly on Thursday, March 10, 2016 - 04:54 pm:

Robert, I would replace the screw that has no slot with a proper screw. If it backs out your clutch will slip and if it comes out completely it can really mess up your transmission and magneto.

Stephen


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Hoops - Burton,Texas on Monday, March 14, 2016 - 01:47 pm:

Well, I finally got the clutch problem fixed this weekend. It turned out that all I needed to do was tighten the clutch lever bolt about 1-1/2 turns. Everything works fine now, no slippage, easy to push and crank and it goes smoothly into high gear. Messing around with the three clutch fingers was a waste of effort.

I'm learning to use my left hand better than I ever thought I could I'm right handed). I'm going for my third therapy session today for a right shoulder rotor cuff tear and am hoping that I won't need a shoulder replacement.

Thanks again to everyone who gave me assistance.


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