Starting problems

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: Starting problems
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Elliott on Wednesday, March 09, 2016 - 09:33 am:

I've been having some issues with re-starting my '14 Touring lately and need some input. As a background, I've been running my T throughout the winter and have not winterized it. I put some anti-freeze in the radiator and fresh oil/gas prior to the really cold weather and have been starting and driving the car every month. The car, when cold, has never given me a lick of trouble when starting, even when the temps were rather cold. I started her and drove around the block on Thanksgiving Day, Christmas Day and New Years Day and had no trouble whatsoever. However, for some time now I've been having trouble with re-starts. For instance, the other day I started her up and took her to the gas station (about a four mile trip one way). After pumping I switched the key to battery and gave her a couple of pulls and I typically get a "chuff" from her carb and then it's pull pull pull and no start. I then have to shut off the switch, close the mix all the way and wait. After a few minutes I turn the key back on and try starting with the mix off. If I'm lucky, it will start after some serious pulling; if not, I wait some more. This has happened way too often and I'm beginning to think it's the carb. I have a Holley G patents pending carb that was rebuilt last year. When I first put the carb on I had no troubles at all. In fact, I usually got a free start after shutting it down and turning the key back to battery. If not, then it was one pull and she fired right up. The problems started about October and I can't figure it out. The gas is fresh, the timer is set as perfectly as possible and it's a TW timer which I've had nothing but praise for. I just took all the sparks plugs out and cleaned them the other day and checked the gap. As I've mentioned, I don't have any problem ever starting the car cold, just after it's been warmed up. Any input would be greatly appreciated. By the way, the engine was recently rebuilt as was the mag, so I don't think that's the issue - I really think it's in the carburetor.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Wednesday, March 09, 2016 - 10:05 am:

It probably has a Grose Jet in it if it was rebuilt by a certain guy. They work briefly, then start to stick either open or closed as the steel ball gets coated with the additives in modern gas.

Switching to an original style needle and seat will fix the problem. Here's a link on how to swap it out. The one in my link is an NH, but the same procedure applies to any T carburetor:
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/411944/469501.html


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Andre Valkenaers on Wednesday, March 09, 2016 - 10:11 am:

Bill,
After reading your story I could think about two reasons. I think you are priming the engine before the cold start up.
First: You could have a leak in one of the gaskets in the intake. Gas mixture to lean.
Second: When hot, there is no gap between the intake valves and the push rods.

Hope this helps
Andre
Belgium


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Coiro on Wednesday, March 09, 2016 - 10:57 am:

Hmm. _Your car starts fine when it's cold, but not when the engine is warm. _That's the opposite of what most of us experience. _Since the engine doesn't stall out when warm, it might pay to consider some things that aren't moving when the engine is hot, but turned off. _Some of us have fuel lines that run close alongside the exhaust pipe. _When the engine is running, a steady stream of cool fuel is flowing through the line and its movement prevents it from absorbing too much heat along the way. _When you park the car and shut down, the non-moving fuel in the lines can become heat-soaked (sometimes even to the point of boiling) and you wind up with vapor-lock.

Compared to the gasoline we bought even just a decade ago, the stuff we're now burning is really pretty lousy and the alcohol mixed into it sure isn't helping any. _Now, not all gasolines are created equal. _Some are manufactured with a higher "Reid Vapor Pressure." _That's just a fancy term indicating how volatile a particular gasoline happens to be. _The more volatile—prone to evaporation—a fuel is, the more susceptible it will be to vapor-lock.

As a diagnostic method, I might suggest that when you park your car and shut down, leave the right side of the hood open to let the heat out of there (and you might even consider opening the front-seat floorboards for the same reason). _If, when you get back, the car starts okay, you know you have an issue with vapor-lock. _Re-routing the fuel line away from the exhaust pipe and wrapping the exhaust pipe with an appropriate insulation-wrap sure couldn't hurt and might solve your problem.

I had this same aggravating problem with an airplane I used to fly and after stopping along the way for fuel, found it very difficult to re-start the engine. _I was getting vapor-lock. _Leaving the engine cowling open during refueling stops solved the problem for me.

But before you try any of the above, just try enriching your mixture maybe 1/2 turn before attempting a hot re-start. _Maybe you'll get lucky.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Elliott on Wednesday, March 09, 2016 - 12:17 pm:

Bob, I did wrap the exhaust in a high temp wrap from the pack nut all the way back to the fuel tank bulb last year so as to keep some of the heat out of the drivers compartment, so I don't think that is the issue, but it does make sense. I'm thinking Royce may be on to something; I remember when I talked to the guy who rebuilt the carb, he did say he used the ball bearing type jet. And I was getting a puddle of gas every morning so I started shutting off the gas line after putting the T away.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary M. Wheeler on Friday, March 18, 2016 - 08:44 pm:

Hey Bill. I've been having the same exact issue with my '14 touring! Today was the ultimate when after a 15-minute run, I was in the street in front of my house and my son wanted to drive her up the driveway. Well, he unfortunately stalled the engine, and it would NOT restart at all!!! I cranked for 25 minutes in front of my amused neighbors before finally towing it up the driveway. Bummer. So did your carb have a "grose" jet? I'm running a newly restored NH, and this has been a recurring issue to the point where if I'm running in dunkin' for a cup of coffee I just leave it idling for fear of the dreaded restart. Just wondering what solved this issue for you. Thank you!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Jablonski on Friday, March 18, 2016 - 10:04 pm:

Gary:

Was there at least 3 gallons of gas in the tank ? Low gas will give starting problems, Grosse Jet inlet valve or standard valve.

Bob J.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Jablonski on Friday, March 18, 2016 - 10:06 pm:

Have HCCT to calibrate coils if you need. I make house calls.'
'
Bob J.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary M. Wheeler on Friday, March 18, 2016 - 10:24 pm:

Bob, thank you for the generous offer, I really appreciate it. I have 7 gallons in the tank and Ron Paterson restored all my coils. The car starts beautifully when cold......the first start of the day. She runs great. Strong runner, plenty of power. But once you stop it, well, good luck restarting it. Tomorrow morning I'm going to remove the NH and see if it has a "grose jet". I'm curious now.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Wells, Hamilton Ontario on Friday, March 18, 2016 - 10:42 pm:

Check your TW timer. My car was gradually becoming harder to start but ran well when started. I found a pile of brush carbon inside the timer. I simply wiped it out with a rag and I was back to easy starting. At a later date, the problem returned and I found that the timer brush was worn down to the installation pin hole, sooner than I thought. I installed a new brush and all was good. I still like this timer but, you have to check it once in a while.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary M. Wheeler on Friday, March 18, 2016 - 10:45 pm:

Ok. Will do! Thanks for the input!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Jablonski on Saturday, March 19, 2016 - 11:55 am:

Recent engine rebuild may need some more time to wear-in while hot.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Jablonski on Saturday, March 19, 2016 - 11:57 am:

Spark plug gap ??? .025" works for me and easy starts cold or hot.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Saturday, March 19, 2016 - 12:05 pm:

2 things: what do you mean by "pumping" and what mix do you close? Needle valve? You also mention attempting to start with the mix off. Please explain because if it's the needle valve she's not going to go with that shut. You're obviously loosing something when hot & sitting. Since you don't complain of stalling when hot/running I'm with the no fuel for whatever reason group or a dicey switch.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Saturday, March 19, 2016 - 12:12 pm:

Your float level might be too high. On one of my T's I could start it without choking when it was cold, but after it had been run, it would not start. It would flood when it was hot. I lowered the float level just a bit and have had no problem since. Now I need to choke when cold, but it starts right up when hot.

Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Saturday, March 19, 2016 - 02:00 pm:

One suggestion that is often overlooked, get a copy of the "Ford Manual" for your year. It is chock full of questions and answers for the Ford owner. In the back (in my 1920 copy) is a Summary of engine troubles and their causes. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Todd, ............Red Deer, Alberta on Sunday, March 20, 2016 - 10:58 am:

Quote "what do you mean by "pumping" ?

Methinks he was referring to putting gas in the tank from the gas pump.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Sunday, March 20, 2016 - 12:05 pm:

I have a fried that sometimes when starting his T's will pump the throttle lever up and down. :-) Seem to work for him and his T's.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Mikeska, Denver CO on Sunday, March 20, 2016 - 12:37 pm:

FWIW I had a problem with hard starting on my 14 Touring. I start it on battery and then switch to the mag. It turned out that the ground path to the motor was not very good. I was only getting about 1 volt to the bottom of the coil box. I put a jumper wire from the negative terminal of the battery to the motor and measured the coil box voltage again. I now was seeing full voltage and the car started right up. I then installed a 12 gauge ground wire straight from the battery to the motor and have not had any problem starting the car since.


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