Timing gear noise

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: Timing gear noise
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By R. S. Cruickshank on Saturday, March 12, 2016 - 02:28 pm:

I'm perplexed over the attempt to quiet the timing gear with the cam shaft thrust kit. I took extreme pains to make sure it was not too tight nor too loose. I made sure the timing cover did not bind when tightened. The cam/timing gear still is noisy. Pulling/acceleration it goes away, coasting it is noisy like a rapping sound but retard timing when this is happening it goes away. Classical timing gear noise. What can fix this short of a complete rebuild?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Philip Berg on Saturday, March 12, 2016 - 03:02 pm:

I have the thrust kit also on my freshly rebuilt 16 engine and have some timing gear noise. Not sure if it's related to the thrust kit or using a used gear with a new crank gear. It does change with timing adv/retard.

Can't hear when driving so for me I'm good, I know it's not going to hurt anything.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Saturday, March 12, 2016 - 03:39 pm:

C.R.S. - A lot of conjecture on my part here for sure, but IMO, a certain amount of rapping or rattling noise from Model T timing gears is always going to be there. This is more of a factor with a four cylinder engine with timing gears than with 6 cylinder or 8 cylinder engines, due to more pronounced camshaft/gear torque pulsations with 4 cylinders than with engine with more cylinders, hence more valve springs exerting pressure on more cams which tends to somewhat decrease or smooth out cam gear torque pulsations. This is also one reason that timing chains, and, in more recent years Gimler belts for camshaft drive have become more popular. In the case of the Model T 4 cylinder, the simple fact is that fiber or nylon gears greatly lessen timing gear rattle. To further illustrate, think of the difference in "ring" between a cast iron or bronze church bell and a bell that would be made of nylon, plastic or fiber. (....no such "bell" of course....). All that to say, I just believe in a sort of "compromise" with aluminum or bronze camshaft gears and live with the noise,....FWIW,.....harold


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By R. S. Cruickshank on Saturday, March 12, 2016 - 06:59 pm:

Thanks for your info. I guess I should have expected it to some extent because several years ago I put the kit on my 12 hack. It didn't quiet it and I thought that I may have sanded the washer too much. This time I was more aware of the noise and as I said, I was very careful not to sand too much. I guess I need to not worry about the noise and continue to drive the T.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Saturday, March 12, 2016 - 07:09 pm:

R.S.

Sounds a whole lot more like classical rod knock.

Anyway, the timing gear thrust kit is not intended to take away timing gear noise. It's meant to control end play in your camshaft, especially if you have a reground cam where the backsides of the lobes have been ground flush to the shaft. It prevents the cam lobe from snagging the clearance area that's cut in rear end of the front cam bearing. Timing gear noise is eliminated by using new timing gears.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By R. S. Cruickshank on Saturday, March 12, 2016 - 07:31 pm:

Jerry, does the rod knock go away by retarding the spark? I am not aware of that.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stephen D Heatherly on Saturday, March 12, 2016 - 07:36 pm:

Yes

Stephen


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Saturday, March 12, 2016 - 08:29 pm:

Yes, it does.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By R. S. Cruickshank on Sunday, March 13, 2016 - 07:51 am:

It my be a rod knock but when I had the engine on my engine stand and the crankcase pan off, I specifically looked at the rods to see if there seemed to be any looseness. I did not do it scientifically, that is I did the old "hammer handle bump" on all the bearing caps and there was hardly any movement. I did all this because I just bought the 15 and while I was straightening the pan I wanted to make sure the rods were in reasonable shape. My mission at the time was to install the new bearing/seal at the "forth main". I think I'll live with the noise as I truly believe it is the timing gear. Thanks for your suggestion, Dick C.


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