The weather finally got a bit warmer so I was able to get out into the garage and start taking the "T" apart. I have gotten it pretty well taken apart. I just need to get a puller for the wheels and then I will start disassembling the rear end and getting everything ready for sandblasting. I'm hoping to get everything blasted, then primed and painted as soon as the weather hits mid 60's here in Vermont.
Nice looking start, Be very careful about your blasting. It can destroy otherwise good parts... Keep us posted. we like pictures ..
Michael, Do take the rear axle apart and make sure it does not have babbit thrust washers. Babbit thrust washers can crumble when you need them the most. Like when you are stopping. The thrust washers need to be the newer bronze washers.
Wait until the weather is good enough to spray the primer before you blast the sheetmetal. If you wait, it will rust very fast. It is good to paint the same day or the next day. You can do that in your spare time for small parts like fenders hood doors etc, but the main body might take all day to blast so do when you can have two or three days together.
When your love is willing to sit with your other love and hold a faux steering wheel and imagine?
On bare seat SPRINGS none the less!
Will your love be taught to drive your other love?
Funny you saw that it was just the steering wheel. The car is for her. I just love the project and have fun learning about something I know nothing about. She's always wanted an old "T". I figured it would be fun for us to both work on. She's gonna do the interior and any other stuff she can help with. I told her the other day that she's gonna learn first and then teach me. We'll trailer it to an empty parking lot at the school which is located on a quiet dirt road for her to first learn. I'll also have someone who has driven one come teach us. We are both excited to get the project going. Hoping to work on it more this weekend.
In that picture of me painting the car, those horses were made in such a way that the chassis could be rolled right under the body and then the horses would be removed pulling out the 2x4 crossmember.
That is a great idea. I'll have to build a few just like that. I have plenty of 2x4's around it should only take a few minutes to put them together.
Also, received a box from Lang's today with a few parts to get started on the rear end. Still waiting for the tool to take off the wheels. It is back ordered so hopefully it will be here soon.
I'll update the pics this weekend if I get a chance to do any work.
That's really cool when one of the ladies wants to drive a Model T. Power to you both on your project!
I had a chance to work on the "T" today for about 3 hours. I was able to get the wheels off with a tool I borrowed from another MTFCA forum member (thanks Ralph). I was able to get the drive shaft tube off, the rear end split and inspected. Looks like the original thrust washers are still in there... Glad I took it apart.
Should I just replace the thrust washers with brass ones and clean up the rest and repack the bearings in grease or should I strip down the axle further and replace anything else?
Since you have the axle broken down this far, now is the best time to check everything else out.
Get the axle repair book. You can not just replace the thrust washers as the new ones will not be the same thickness as the old ones. You will probably find that the pins holding the thrust washer spacers need replacing too. I would also replace the pinion bearing with a modern one from Fun Projects or one of the other vendors. Do it correctly the first time so it won't be a problem later.
Agreed. The rear axle is most important part of the drive line in the T. It handles all forward drive, turns, and most importantly, all stopping.
Tear it all down and follow the books, replace parts that are worn. The ring gear looks about marginally serviceable, but has pits and wear. Likely will be a bit noisy too. Pinion gear has to be in good shape too.
Ring gear pitting and wear on both side of each tooth.
Then replace the Hyatt bearing at the pinion housing with the Fun Project replacement modern, best way to have an easy assembly. When you see that Ford bearings there you will understand.
New Hyatt sleeves, perhaps the Hyatt rollers are good, but check all parts out. Most times its about $800 worth of parts, more if the axles are worn at the bearing surface or the axle key way or threads are shot.
Cheap insurance to do that rear axle correctly.
Since you live in a state that isn't flat, you may find updating to a Ruxtell a beneficial expense. You will have an easier time on climbing hills. Since the rear end is out of the car, this would be a good time to make the modification. Also I second the Fun Project spool. It is much easier to set up.
Just a note of help. When I'm setting clearances on the rear end, I use Allan head cap screws and a drill driver for assembly and dis-assembly, then when it's right I exchange them one at a time with the correct cap screws.
Had some more time today to Work on the "T". I decided to take apart the rear axles and inspect the planetary gears and the axles. I took measurements of the Inner axle bearings and they are really good still. Only 1 thousandth out from stock. I also measured the axle where the inner and outer bearings sit and the axle is still almost exactly the same diameter as stock.
The differential was a HUGE pain in the butt to get clean. The old grease did NOT want to come off! After hours of scrubbing I got everything pretty clean. I coated everything in oil for now so nothing would rust. The axle gears and planetary gears look pretty good. The ring gear is definitely worn too much to risk. I haven't looked at the pinion gear yet but I'll just buy a set and be done with it.
I do have one question. Is the clip that retains the axle gear a two piece unit? It looks like it is broken but both axles are exactly the same. I'm not sure if I should just leave it or take it apart. I have the DVD series for rebuilding the rear end but I haven't seen that part on there (maybe I missed it...) Thanks for looking, Mike
Michael, those are indeed two piece lock rings. If the gears look good i would leave them alone, getting the gear off requires you first press the gear further onto the shaft to remove the clips, then fully press the gears off outward to remove, a real PITA if you don't own a hydraulic press.
The axle shaft gears normally are good to go, check the bearing surfaces at the outer end, any deep grooves or deep pits indicates too much wear.
The upper one was good to go, nice keyway and good threads, no cracks.
The lower one, goes to the pile for a new axle later, keeping it with gear on as that's a machine shop visit for me. Only have a baby bench mount press.
Are the inside and outside axle sleeves the same for each side? I only see "best quality axle sleeve- left" or "best quality axle sleeve-right" Do I buy two of each?
Usually the inner Hyatt bearings and sleeves are in good shape. The outer ones suffer due to poor lubrication with only grease in the axle. Check the wear, then decide. The best book is the MTFCA Rear axle book, costs about $10 from the usual suppliers.
When shimming to set the gear lash(clearance) between the pinion and ring gears, DO NOT shim under the ring gear. Get the shims that go under the thrust washers. The reason is the ring gear mounting bolts will shear off under heavy breaking when you put the shim between the ring gear and the carrier. I shimmed between the ring gear and carrier when I first restored my 26 rear end. When I pulled it apart 3000 miles later to put new ruing and pinion in, I had only two ring gear bolts left intact. The rest had sheered off at the mating area between the ring gear and shim/carrier. The only thing that kept the bolt heads from locking up the works was the safety wire. Scary.
I have all the rear end pieces in bags and I put some lightweight oil on them to keep them from rusting while I am getting the rest of the parts ready to paint and then rebuild. I was looking at the parts today and it seems that they are already getting some spots of rust on them (even though they are covered in oil). Does anyone have thoughts on what I should do to prevent the parts from getting rusty. It is minor, but I just don't want any other issues.
PS, Ralph, Did you see I left the wheel puller by the garage door? I tried IM'ing you and emailing you but got no response.
I FINALLY got the rear end put back together.... It was my first rear end rebuild and it was a bit more of a pain in the butt than I thought it was going to be. I painted all the parts, which slowed me down, and it seemed like every time I was almost there, I needed to order another part or another tool...
Tonight, I wrestled with the rear end assembly for the last time. I think I have put this thing together and taken it apart about 11 times to make sure that I got everything right. I finally thought that I had it all set and realized that I had installed the radius rods without sliding the coupling that mounts the driveshaft to the engine all the way forward....I had to take it apart one more time to slide that piece all the way forward, then re-seal everything and tighten it one last time...
I then installed the inner seals, the sleeves, the outer bearings, and the new outer seals/dust caps. I am going to touch up a few spots where I nicked the paint then it should be all set to install on the chassis.
If I ever do another rear end assembly (and I'm sure I will...) It should be much easier next time!!!!
Finally got some time to work on the T today. Got the tires mounted on the new rims. Installed the rims on the wheels and rolled it out into the driveway...
I still need to paint the wheels black as they are peeling and faded. I also need to do a few touch ups on the rims as I scratched them in a few small spots while installing the tires.
All in all, it is starting to look great! Getting closer, one step at a time.
looking good mike, does that body have wood sills or any wood inside? Mine is a 24 and is more curved at the bottom where it meets the chassis. Just looks different, however the chassis is identical
The body that I have has NO wood on it. I think that there is some wood that goes into the body but not as much as some of the older models. I haven't really gotten that far yet so I haven't researched too much yet. I think in the past I have seen a complete wood kit for a 1926 Touring and it was $600. So there must be a fair amount of wood inside it other than just for the seats.
My next mission is to get the motor running. I have a few last minute things to button up on the chassis but I need a break from that for a bit. I'll come back to the chassis in a few weeks.
I am going to pull the head, check the valves since one of them is sticking, and see what the pistons and cylinders look like. I may just try to clean up the valves and see if I can get it running without a complete valve job. I have a bit of research to do before I jump into the engine so lots of bedtime reading for the next few nights.
The Improved Ford body does not have a wood framework, but it does use wood blocks to mount it to the frame, and wood for attaching the upholstery.
Finally got the valves all freed up and will be lapping them and reinstalling the springs tomorrow hopefully. The valves that are in the motor have .015 printed on them so they must have been replaced at some point.
I want to paint the motor but it is covered with years of grease. I decided to pull the hogs head to inspect everything inside, and to make it easier to paint the motor and hogs head separately. Once inside I found that the ring gear is missing a bunch of teeth so I better replace that while I am in there. hopefully I don't start getting into this too deep but I really have to replace the ring gear if I want the electric start to work. Does the transmission come out easily as a whole unit or am I going to have to dig deep to replace the ring gear? I believe that I will have to take the magnets off to replace it and if that is the case, I will recharge them while I am at it.
These Pics are bigger...
Michael, unfortunately changing the ring gear is a major chore, and about as deep as you can go because everything rear of the field coil has to be removed. The good news is that most of the work is just time consuming and not rocket science. There are some things that require special attention though, like timing the triple gears properly and setting the gap correctly between the magnets and the field coil. I just replaced mine not that long ago and came out of the ordeal relatively unscathed.
While you have it apart for the ring gear you might as well do whatever the magneto and transmission need so you won't have to take it apart again.
Steve makes a great point, i ended up changing out the clutch discs which were pretty burnt up, and the magnet spools also while i had everything apart. Very short money to have some peace of mind that you won't have to do a tear-down again anytime soon. You will also need two special tools, one to compress the clutch spring to remove the pin, and another to remove the clutch drum. I made both from various parts and pieces i had lying around my shop.
Michael: When you have the rear fourth main bearing removed, or the pan off the engine, be very careful to not bend the rear flange of the crankshaft. The weight of the trans is just hanging out there. It takes very little of a jolt or bang to bend the flange. I also suggest to check the run-out of the flange while the trans is removed. I always try to never have the trans hanging. With the engine mounted to most engine stands the engine can be stood on its nose while removing or working on the trans. I also never haul an engine with out the fourth main bearing in place. I have seen crank flanges bent during hauling them without the fourth main in place. I know you wanted to just try a simple rebuild, but when you have to replace the ring gear, you are about as deep as you can be in a teardown .. . But at least now is a good time to do a good inspection of parts. By the way, the chassis is looking good,
Clutch spring compressor. Two junk hub plates, two carriage bolts, nuts & washers.
I watched a few videos online today and got a pretty good idea of what is involved in the tear down and replacement of the Ring gear... Doesn't look super difficult, but does look like it's going to take a bit of time. I am ordering an engine stand and an adapter to mount the engine so I can stand it upright and start tearing it down... I have a feeling this is going to turn into a whole lot more (WHICH I DIDN'T WANT TO DO....) I really only plan to have one model T (since this is my wife's car) and I hate buying all these tools that I will only use once. I'm sure I'm not the only one who has ever been in this boat. Maybe it will force me to buy another T to make it worth having all the tools and all this experience on how to work on them.
I met up with another MTFCA forum member who lives about 20 minutes away from me (Ralph Fitzgerald) and got to go for a short ride in his 1915 model T. The ride motivated me to get back to work on mine! I borrowed an engine stand adapter plate from him and was able to get the engine mounted in the stand, I removed the oil pan, and got a chance to look over the bottom end of the motor. Thanks Again Ralph for the tools!!!!
Everything looked good in the bottom end at quick glance. There isn't any play in the crank or the pistons however I noticed that the underside of the pistons have quite a bit of carbon build up on them. One piston has about a half inch of hard crusty carbon that doesn't appear to want to come off very easily... Anyone have an idea of how I could easily get that out of there? I am afraid if I leave it, tiny pieces will come loose over time and get turned in the oil and only help to wear things out quicker in the bottom.
Have been working on the car a bit here and there. Ralph (another MTFCA member) and I were able to get the field coil changed out, ring gear replaced, adjustable valve tappets installed, Magnets recharged, valves lapped, and a whole bunch of other little stuff done. The motor went back in the chassis tonight which is a big step. I just need to install the head, paint a few misc. pieces, install the timer, wiring, changed the plugs, add oil, and clean the carb and it should be almost ready to hear run. Getting closer by the day. Wish it wasn't so cold in my garage...
Looking good. Glad for update. Wish i had more time for mine but work pays for parts. I need heat also. Keep pics coming ,gives inspiration
Drive safe and often
Can I ask you to take a picture of the blue adapter plate for the engine stand? Where does it bolt on to? Nice job on the car....
It been a lot of fun putting her back together.
Looks like the adapter bolts to the head bolt holes.
The bracket has two studs that fit down into two of the oil pan bolt holes and then two bolts secure it on the top to the water outlet (just above where the engine number is stamped) The brackets are available from most of the parts suppliers.
Today I was able to get the generator mounted, the head on, the coil box, and some of the wiring. I also put oil in it and turned it over a few times to sling the oil around the new coil and the transmission.
That's about it for now, heading out of town for a few days. Hoping to work on it some more on Sunday when I return. I have a few misc pieces that I need to paint before I mount them.