Off car magneto gap

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: Off car magneto gap
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By dennis delano on Tuesday, March 15, 2016 - 11:01 pm:

Hello all, Well, I have the new field coil ring in place, magnets recharged and installed on the flywheel with new spools and brass screws, but am having a heck of a time trying to set the gap and have had the flywheel assembly on and off too many times to count using a small chainfall (this sucker is heavy!) while trying to install and remove shims to get the required .025 to .040 spread and can't seem to get it right! I suspect that my magnets may not be of uniform height even though they "look" pretty even. does anyone know of a way that I can make sure without having the Wilson tool to check them with? also, I cannot find my original long spacer shim that I removed from the old coil ring, I may have sent it back with my core by mistake, Do they sell them? I can't seem to find them anywhere? thank's for any suggestions.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Tuesday, March 15, 2016 - 11:14 pm:


You can measure magnet height like this.


There are various ways to get them close to the same height. I used .005" shim stock.


That got them all within a spread of .003". Close enough for gummint work.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Tuesday, March 15, 2016 - 11:30 pm:

You're right about the #3274 long shim not being in any of the dealer catalogues. I guess you're supposed to use enough of the little #3272 shims to replace it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By dennis delano on Wednesday, March 16, 2016 - 04:12 pm:

thank's, another problem that I am having is that the feeler gauges are sticking to the newly recharged magnets when trying to get the gap set which threw me off the first few times until i realized what was happening, I am now looking to order a set of brass gauges.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By dennis delano on Wednesday, March 16, 2016 - 04:17 pm:

can I use regular washers, or do they have to be brass? I had ordered some of the brass shims, but wrecked them while trying to peel the layers and adding, subtracting them before realizing that the magnets may not be uniform and the gauges were sticking!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Robinson, Salty Bottom, AL on Wednesday, March 16, 2016 - 10:22 pm:

Dennis- a brass feeler gauge will not stick to the magnets.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Zibell, Huntsville, AL on Wednesday, March 16, 2016 - 10:34 pm:

Using one of these helps. https://www.modeltford.com/item/KRW1.aspx Borrow one if you can, buy if you must. I try to get the magnets within 0.002 inch of each other. To set the coil ring, get the left right clearance first, then the up down. It seems to work easier that way. Also the closer you get to 0.025, the better the output of the magneto. Talking with Wally S., he sets his to about 0.015, but that seems a bit close to me. An as Bill says, a brass feeler gauge is a must.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mike windsor on Wednesday, March 16, 2016 - 10:36 pm:

I know you can buy the KR Wilson tool , but the recent collapse of the Canadian dollar became the mother of invention for me . The tool I made uses the transmission shaft , but cost less than a buck to make


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Garrison - Rice Minnesota on Wednesday, March 16, 2016 - 10:37 pm:

Dennis, the brass shims are a nightmare to peel apart even with heating them. Patience goes a long way when setting magneto gap. It is possible to set the coil ring with a magnetic base and dial indicator but it takes a lot of fiddling around to assure accuracy. Stevens idea of using the micrometer works quite well for setting uniform height on the magnets. Be certain to "dress" the crankshaft flange with a small flat hone or file to make sure there are no burrs sticking up.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Wednesday, March 16, 2016 - 11:46 pm:

This tool makes quick work of it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Eric Hylen- Central Minnesota on Wednesday, March 16, 2016 - 11:57 pm:

The reason that the KR Wilson tool is worth every penny, is that you can set the magnets to an even plane, indexed off the center flange of the flywheel. Then, you can take the tool and bolt it to the crankshaft and set the height of the field coil. If you do each step right, you only need to mount the transmission one time.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Walt Berdan, Bellevue, WA on Thursday, March 17, 2016 - 10:27 am:

OK, can't justify the $200 for something I've only done twice in thirty years but will be doing again fairly soon. Has anyone compared the results of doing this like Steve vs. measuring from the shaft? I'd think Steve's method should work well for getting the magnet heights set. The gap can be worked out by trial and error.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By dennis delano on Thursday, March 17, 2016 - 01:16 pm:

great ideas and suggestions, thank's much! I will look for some brass feeler gauges today as well as a larger micrometer of some sort. I din't want to spend 200 bucks for a tool that I know I will only use once as I already have quite a bit tied up into what was supposed to be just the replacement of the starter ring gear, as usual, I should have left well enough alone and just kept using the crank start!!! Oh well, it's about 400 over budget so far, but I'll keep plugging along and "git 'er done" eventually!!LOL Thank's again for the suggestions, gives me some options at least! I'm beginning to think that this is not a "poor man's car" anymore! LOL


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By dennis delano on Thursday, March 17, 2016 - 04:41 pm:

am having a hard time finding a set of brass feeler gauges to .040, anyone know where I can order them?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky, Lytle TX on Thursday, March 17, 2016 - 06:49 pm:

Just about any auto parts store has them. I've never seen them in "complete" sets. They're normally used in magneto and ignition systems where a complete set isn't necessary. They'll measure from .006 to over .060".

http://www.amazon.com/Stanley-Proto-J000BR-Non-Magnetic-Feeler/dp/B001HWC39Q

.016 + .014 + .010 = .040

:-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Matthew Atchinson on Thursday, March 17, 2016 - 06:58 pm:

Honestly my grandfather always taught me that a matchbook cover is roughly .025 thick. He always spaced it so that a matchbook would just slide between, making it .030 or so. Maybe it's not super accurate but it seems to work fine if you can't find the right gauge,


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith, Lomita, California on Thursday, March 17, 2016 - 06:59 pm:

I'll go with Eric on this one. The KRW gauge is the way to go. The large shim is easy to find at swap meets, and any T guy should have a few laying around. You always want to allow .010" extra at the bottom when assembling the transmission to the flywheel.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Scherzer -- Saginaw, MI on Thursday, March 17, 2016 - 09:40 pm:

This job of setting the gap between the mag coil and flywheel was the main reason I got into reproducing the KRW gap gage. I was working on 4 engine rebuilds all at the same time and got to the setting the mag coil and flywheel gap and was doing the hard way.

I got the use of one of these KRW tools but when we checked it on a surface plate to find it had run out of .008 one side to the other, maybe got dropped or hit. So my late partner, Fritz and I set out to make a couple copies up for our own use plus a couple extras. That year we took one to Hershey and showed them off to T vendors and got orders for 65 units. Since then which is over 20 years now we have reproduced over 450 which are sold by most of the major T vendors. The last 3 times we reproduced a batch, Fritz's son is now helping in his place and we now do them in 100pc lots to save on set up time and purchasing of materials. This last batch will probably be my last since it's getting hard to keep up.

The reason for this comment was after reading some of the reasons some stated for not shelling out that much for a tool you may only need once or twice. We too at the time found it hard that we would be able to sell more then a dozen given their cost to reproduce for this one or two time use by one owner but once you use one it's hard to want to do it any other way.
But we also never figured we would sell over 1500 the carburetor elbow shut offs either when you could just as easily shut off the gas from under the car,
I coined this old saying. " I used to spend my time to save money but now I'm willing to spend my money to save time." Sorry for this senior moment. Bob

krw gap gage


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Thursday, March 17, 2016 - 10:24 pm:

Bob,

Thanks so much for all you have done for the hobby!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Travis E. Towle on Thursday, March 17, 2016 - 11:02 pm:

I own one of bobs tools and can't wait to use it! I buy every tool I can find because you never know when you will need one and it will suck if you need it and they don't make them anymore.


Travis
Topeka, Kansas


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jay fredrickson on Friday, March 18, 2016 - 12:26 pm:

I used Travis tool when I put my 27 together and it fairly easy to use. I wouldn't do it without the tool.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Menzies on Tuesday, March 22, 2016 - 04:18 am:

I am curious about pre measuring the height of the magnet assemblies, if the magnets were cut from same bar stock, the plates were also cut from the same bar stock and the spools are all machined identical what can vary? I have one on my bench an out of curiosity I measured it and all the magnet assemblies were identical at 2.675. I also placed a steel straight edge across the assemblies with no visible differences. Determining the gap is different and requires some TLC.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Tuesday, March 22, 2016 - 09:52 am:

David,

The magnets were made to varying specs over the years, and there were probably aftermarket magnets, spools, and flywheels of varying quality and specifications. Bottom line they vary greatly. You need to have a way to make sure that :
A. The magnets are all parallel with the plane of the crankshaft flange of the flywheel and
B. The magnets are all set to the same height with relationship to the crankshaft flange.

That's why the tool sold by all the vendors is so popular. Everybody needs one.


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