New tube repair advice wanted

Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration
Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: New tube repair advice wanted
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Friday, March 18, 2016 - 09:32 pm:

Advice needed what's the best way to fix this ? Where to buy a new stem ? How about a good patch kit also.. suggestions welcomed . I believe the tube was damaged before installed in new tire .


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jon pederson, Minneapolis,MN on Friday, March 18, 2016 - 09:44 pm:

Buy a new one. The cost is less than the aggravation of having one fail. Just my 2c.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Friday, March 18, 2016 - 10:14 pm:

Here's the thing I want to know how to repair these that and from what I read new ones of quality are like tires . So advice on how to repair from those that have done it . Yes Jon I will have a new one soon as well.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Dugger on Friday, March 18, 2016 - 11:21 pm:

Michael: Don't waste your time on trying to repair unless you have a way to vulcanize and new one on there. Next would be a metal stem, but wont match.
JMHO

Bill


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Saturday, March 19, 2016 - 03:45 am:

ok guy's i really thought this was an easily repaired thing . thanks


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Saturday, March 19, 2016 - 04:18 am:

Stems for tubes that were just glued on like patches used to be common. I've used them several times to repair a perfectly good tube that had a failed stem and they worked great. That being said, that was 20+ plus years ago and I don't know if they are even still available since tube type tires are almost extinct now. Michael's tube looks like it may have been repaired the same way sometime in the past. Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Bennett - Australia on Saturday, March 19, 2016 - 05:39 am:

Michael, the stem you need is a long rubber stem that has a small diameter to go through the T rim. A truck tyre shop may have one in stock, or they may have to order it in. We can still get them in Australia. They are stick on types. As David said, it looks like your tube has already had one at one stage.

Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Saturday, March 19, 2016 - 09:25 am:

Michael,

You commented, "I'm lucky the tube had spun with old rotten tire . I put the new tire on the tube appeared fine .I drove around my yard then around the circle about 16th mile maybe .After sitting 5 minutes the tube let go at the stem ." That is from your Friday, March 18, 2016 - 08:45 pm: at: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/599638/618419.html?1458350583

Even an old tire and tube should not move on the rim. That can be caused by under inflation. From the 1926 owners manual at: http://www.mtfca.com/books/1926Inst.htm for the 30 x 3 1/2 inch clinchers that your car has Ford recommended:

Following is a table showing correct tire pressure for tires on Ford cars and trucks:
HIGH PRESSURE TIRES
Cars Front, 55 lbs. Rear, 55 lbs.

From your posting at: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/29/20492.html?1175481071 you find many folks run a little more pressure than that in the clincher tires.

Another much less frequent cause of the tire moving on the rim is because the wrong style rim is mounted on a felloe that is designed for a different rim. From the photos I have seen of your car, I cannot tell if the rims are the Hayes style (made by Hayes, Ford, Firestone, Cleveland etc) that have the four lugs permanently attached to the rim. Or if you may have the style that Ford supplied on some cars during the 1920s that had a removable Lug. Below is a photo William Vanderburg posted of his wheel that has the 2846C style removable lug. From a distance in photos it looks similar in shape to the Hayes style fixed lugs.



But the lug is removable as shown below:



If your lugs are permanently attached to the rim – that will not be an issue. If you remove the lug nut and you can remove the lug that holds the rim to the wheel felloe – that might be an issue. See: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/506218/533734.html?1432572938 http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/506218/574282.html?1443324285 discusses the loose lug that looks similar to the fixed lug. The other two styles of loose lugs are rectangular in shape rather than rounded so from the photos you posted I can tell you are not using the Kelsey loose lug (part number 2846B) or the other style of Firestone/Ford/Cleveland loose lug part number 2846D (they appear to have been produced by all three and possibly a few others for Ford).

I thought I had read that if the rim is really good a smooth and you powder coat it that the tire may rotate even if it is properly inflated. But I couldn’t locate any posting that mentioned that so maybe I just dreamed it or remembered it wrong?

Back to your original question about possibly replacing the valve stem:

The metal valve stems that are vulcanized onto the inner tube are sold by the vendors see: https://www.modeltford.com/item/ST3-3/8.aspx But I did NOT find a source for reproduction Model T metal valve stems that are secured mechanically to the tube. But there is a great thread at: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/118802/144281.html?1282795951 that discusses purchasing used ones and installing them. That thread has a great step by step illustration of how to install a metal tire stem is located at: http://www.sheepisland.com/cars/tech/metal_stems/

Keep up the good work you are making great progress.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Todd, ............Red Deer, Alberta on Saturday, March 19, 2016 - 10:29 am:

I bought a new rubber stem from Napa a few years ago, don't know if they still carry them or not. You could also try local tire shops.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Duey_C on Saturday, March 19, 2016 - 10:18 pm:

Michael, looking good! So glad you got to take that Ford for a spin! It was "different" wasn't it? :-)
It musta been written in the cards for you to finish your "toodle" (that's what my wife calls it) before the tube let go. :-)

I also tend to be a guy thinks that if it can be fixed, I fix it. I understand the "get a new one" approach tho too.

Hap, thank you for chiming in. I also wanted to see the resources available to us.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Sunday, March 20, 2016 - 12:40 am:

Back in the day, when money was hard to come by, folks just did not have the money to buy new parts. That's why they bought Model T's. If there was any way to fix a break like this on otherwise, good tube, they would have found a way. I think it is repairable and I admire Mr. Snyder for wanting to salvage a part just like they would have done back when Model T's ruled the roads.

I would go to a bicycle shop and get an old discarded tube and cut off a 2" diameter piece to use as a saddle and punch a small hole in the center so that when stretched, the small hole will fit tightly over the stem and hug the base of the stem all around. Before pulling it all the way down, I would apply "The Right Stuff" (black rubber gasket compound) on the area under the patch making sure to press it into the tear between the stem and the tube and out from the stem to the edge of the saddle. I would also apply it to the base of the stem to create a good strong seal when the saddle is pulled all the way down. I would then lay the tube perfectly flat on a hard flat surface with the stem sticking up and pull the 2" saddle all the way down until it is tight against the tube and base of the stem, then I would put some sort of weight ( like a concrete block) on it and leave it for several days until "The Right Stuff" was totally cured. It would be ideal if you could drill a 1/2" hole in a 2 x 4 ahead of time, to slip over the stem and then put weights on it to hold the saddle perfectly flat against the tube while applying pressure uniformly on all sides of the saddle and base of the stem. This is probably how they would have done it years ago, only they would have used a vulcanized tire repair kit instead of "The Right Stuff". I have bought several of these vintage, mint condition Camel vulcanizing patch kits on ebay, to keep in my Model T just for show. Good luck. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Sunday, March 20, 2016 - 01:01 am:

Thanks for all the replies . Jim Patrick you have confirmed my thought to the T (pun intended) this was my thinking too even the rite stuff . i did order some new tubes anyway ,but this is a NOS real gum tube i think is better than anything available now . it was flat because the schrader leaked i had it jacked up ...started engine the wheel spun up to speed then when i shut it off it spun the tire on rim ..oops Hap thanks for all the info .


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Eric Sole - Castelldefels (Spain) on Sunday, March 20, 2016 - 05:47 am:

Bought five new tubes this year. They are the 4.50 x 20/21 rubber stem - made in EEC (European Economic Community). After mounting flaps, tubes and tires (all new) on the rims and sitting in the garage without being mounted on the wheels yet, one lost a couple psi per day. A little soapy water sprayed over the tube quickly revealed a defective seal at the seam near the valve stem. The tube is lumpy at this area where the stem was vulcanised to it.







I informed the local supplier by email but no response after three messages. No phone answered either. Figuring there would be no joy here, I bought a new tube from Lang's which is holding air. Finally got the supplier to answer the phone and before even looking at my email messages (although I have a sneaking suspicion that they had already seen them) they said they are going to send me a new tube at no charge. It will take about a month for them to get it so we'll see how it ends.

The real laugh about these tubes is that after being manufactured in "somewhere" in Europe they are imported to the USA (international shipping and import tax paid here) and when purchased by a customer in Europe are sent back(international shipping and import tax paid here - again) and there's no way to purchase them directly to avoid all the extra cost. Sometimes globalization works to our advantage, other times not so much. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Monday, March 21, 2016 - 06:08 pm:

I never thought about this before, but HOW do they make an inner tube? How do they "glue" the ends together to make an air-tight container?
The close-up view on those tubes makes them look pretty bad, it looks like poor quality control (quality control?? What's that??) :-( .


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Eric Sole - Castelldefels (Spain) on Monday, March 21, 2016 - 06:23 pm:

David, according to How Do They Do It, the ends are not glued but heated to make an air tight seal. At least that's how they show it done on a bicycle sized tube in the following video: https://youtu.be/xyck0QTbodo


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Monday, March 21, 2016 - 06:30 pm:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyck0QTbodo

:-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Eric Sole - Castelldefels (Spain) on Monday, March 21, 2016 - 07:31 pm:

Thanks Mark. I copied the "Share" info instead of the URL.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith, Lomita, California on Tuesday, March 22, 2016 - 11:04 am:

I don't think that tube is repairable. Possibly a truck tire shop could vulcanize a new stem where the old one was, but why bother? If yours wasn't torn the way it is I would suggest using an original metal stem, but yours is ripped badly, so it can't be done.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Snyder on Tuesday, March 22, 2016 - 01:54 pm:

I have new tubes arriving today so this will be an experiment . I think i will remove the original stem area ,then patch that with inside and outside patch then use a new old style stem . i just thought there was a way to save the stem or area .from what i have read here the quality of new tubes is like tires at least in these sizes. this real rubber made in USA Apex tube with no other patches is thick and subtle and i believe if repaired successfully will be around a long time .


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Thursday, March 24, 2016 - 04:30 am:

Larry, if you are referring to Michael's original post/picture, I think his tube could be repaired by using an original stem. I would just grind the extra rubber from the stem off of the tube and use an original metal stem as you suggested. Take your time and check your progress often. Might be worth a try. JMHO Dave


Add a Message


This is a private posting area. Only registered users and moderators may post messages here.
Username:  
Password:

Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration