Priming pitted body rust

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: Priming pitted body rust
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By thomas elliott nw pa on Monday, March 21, 2016 - 01:57 pm:

The main body is pitted rust will never cleanup so what do I use on the not so bare metal? I have a gallon of this from,"5 star autobody prod #5453, high build urethane primer surface." The previous owner had bought a gallon of this never opened. I just need this for the main body, other sheet metal is new never painted. I have looked this up on line and it looks to be ok.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Don Booth@ Bay City, Mi on Monday, March 21, 2016 - 02:01 pm:

Brush on some Rustbullet. It works great and will even fill the pin holes. Then put the bondo on and coat the bondo with Rustbullet. Highbuild primer and then finish coat and your done.

www.rustbullet.com get the automotive gray


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Don Booth@ Bay City, Mi on Monday, March 21, 2016 - 02:04 pm:

I immerse the entire car with it including the wood.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom Miller, mostly in Dearborn on Monday, March 21, 2016 - 02:13 pm:

Trust me. You never want to jump in that covered swimming pool behind Don's shop. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Dufault on Monday, March 21, 2016 - 02:25 pm:

There's a story there just begging to be told....
are you willing, Tom?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Don Booth@ Bay City, Mi on Monday, March 21, 2016 - 03:14 pm:

:-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Gitts - Ferndale, WA on Monday, March 21, 2016 - 03:20 pm:

If the pitting is minor, then a good urethane high build primer should fill them. If they're larger pits, or have any real depth to them, I would first fill them with a good body filler, then seal and prime. If the pits are deep and you only use urethane primer, you can run the risk of the primer shrinking under the paint later down the road. I would sand out the panels and fill the pits with body filler if needed, then I would seal the panels, using something like PPG's DP50, which is a urethane sealer which will etch into the bare metal. I like U-POL 4:1 primer, as it's a high build primer (urethane) and is also compatible for direct to metal application. I'm not familiar w/ 5-star primer, so just make sure it's direct to metal application, otherwise, any bare metal will first need to be sealed (otherwise, the primer will not adhere properly and may let go). After priming, board, re-priming if needed, then finish sand.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dean Kiefer - Adams, MN on Monday, March 21, 2016 - 03:23 pm:

I'm sure he just closes the garage doors and fills the garage with that stuff? It has to be easier than pulling the T out of a swimming pool?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Don Booth@ Bay City, Mi on Monday, March 21, 2016 - 03:59 pm:

Rust is moisture, bondo (filler) absorbs moisture. That is why any direct contact of the filler to the rust or metal fails. Rustbullet will seal and convert the rust and provide a moisture barrier. The process of rustbullet is to put a moisture barrier between the metal and filler and then when the filler is coated it is locked in and will not absorb moisture. The job will last many times over than the conventional methods of the past. It is a very popular coating on the west coast with the hot rodders. Don't take my word for it, do some research. It will pay in the long run.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Monday, March 21, 2016 - 04:11 pm:

It is also important to seal the inside of the body because moisture can get through from the inside of the car and cause the paint or bondo to blister. This is especially important in a damp climate. We used to live near the ocean and a next door neighbor had been in an accident and had welded on a new top panel on his station wagon. The outside of the car looked perfect until dampness got through the inside and caused the paint to blister and eventually rustout occurred.
norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Don Booth@ Bay City, Mi on Monday, March 21, 2016 - 04:26 pm:

You are spot on Norman, that is why I keep using the Rustbullet method. You have to coat both sides of the metal twice. It doesn't cost anymore to do the job because Rustbullet will take the place of epoxy primer, so you can go right to the high build primer. Anyone that lives near the ocean or in the rust belt like Michigan should at least explore this method. I'm not saying there aren't other ways of getting the job done or that any one is wrong in the way they do it. I just think this stuff deserves a consideration.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Don Booth@ Bay City, Mi on Monday, March 21, 2016 - 04:32 pm:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxJlQ0nUhXs#t=24 Here is a video of Rustbullet tests on seawater.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Monday, March 21, 2016 - 04:46 pm:

You guys remind me of an old friend (long gone) who did a bunch of chrome plating for me when I was putting together my first car ('28 Model A Coupe) in Chicago in the late '50's.

This old fellow had a custom chrome plating business and chrome plated many Model A parts for me, but would only do so if I'd promise to paint the back side of each part with Rustoleum (especially the thin stamped sheet metal parts) before I installed the parts on the car. He was adamant that in time, moisture would work its way through the metal from the back and eventually, ruin the chrome plating.

In all of the explanations of "proper" chrome plating procedure I've heard since then, I've never heard anybody else advise to paint back side of chrome plated parts, but I can tell you that this old fellow had a very successful custom chrome plating business and an excellent reputation for the quality of his work and I believe he certainly knew what he was talking about,....RIP Ray,......FWIW,.......harold


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By thomas elliott nw pa on Monday, March 21, 2016 - 07:02 pm:

I have done rusty parts in the past that seem to have been ok but never anything like the whole body surface, tomorrow I'm off to find Rustbullet. I'm hoping for decent weather next few weeks. Naw, I don't have a pool!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Don Booth@ Bay City, Mi on Monday, March 21, 2016 - 08:16 pm:

Thomas, you can get it thru their website or at the Summit Racing website.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Justin H. - Western PA on Monday, March 21, 2016 - 08:34 pm:

I did a lot of research on Rust Bullet and actually bought it to do the entire body of my C cab which was rusted all over. After reading numerous articles, forum posts, etc. I used it on some smaller parts and decided against using it on my cab. I saw that the first coat of Rust Bullet gassed off and left small holes in the paint surface. This was one of the reports that I read about. After the second coat it was left to dry per the instructions. The second coat looked better. I then scratched the surface and wasn't satisfied with the bond that it made. As a result, I did the following to my cab:

1. Sand blasted the entire cab. About 75% of the rust was removed as I didn't want to really hog into it and warp the metal. The scale was all removed and only the pits still contained the tinge of rust color. All of the metal that was rotted away was replaced (most of the bottom).

2. I wet the surface with OSPHO and scrubbed it thoroughly with a wire wheel to really work down into the pits.

3. While still wet it was wiped down to remove the excess. I sprayed all of it again with OSHPO and wiped it down to have as light of a layer of it as possible. The result was a silver/black surface where the rust used to be.

4. When it came time to paint I used SPI's (Southern Polyurethanes Inc.) epoxy primer. Before spraying I went over the entire body with 320 grit on an orbital sander to remove as much of the OSHPO surface as possible. The OSPHO was on the surface for 3-4 weeks before painting.

5. All filler was applied over the epoxy. You do not want to put filler over metal that has any traces of rust. After putting on the filler it is best to put another coat of epoxy. This encapsulates it.

6. After all of this the regular 2K primer, and then paint was applied.

There will be tons of recommendations on what to do with pitted metal but in the end any rust left behind will continue to oxidize. I'm not knocking the results that some have had with other methods, I'm just relaying my experiences.






Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Don Booth@ Bay City, Mi on Monday, March 21, 2016 - 08:44 pm:

It is best to let the Rustbullet sit for a period of time before you spray the paint. Although, I haven't had any problem with primer, I have had issues with the finish paint if I spray too soon.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Don Booth@ Bay City, Mi on Monday, March 21, 2016 - 08:49 pm:

This is a coupe I restored a while back and it was done completely in Rustbullet. It sat for about 6 weeks before I had warm enough temps to paint it. No problem at all with the surface.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Don Booth@ Bay City, Mi on Tuesday, March 22, 2016 - 04:46 am:

As Rust Bullet cures it expels solvents and releases a carbon dioxide gas while dehydrating the rust. The first coat of Rust Bullet soaks through the rust down to the metal below, encapsulates the rust, and dehydrates it. The first coat must be applied generously enough over the rust for this process to take place. As the first coat dries and gases off, tiny pin holes may form in the coating. The second coat is critical to fill any pin holes and seal the surface with an air tight, armor like shield of protection. If the pin holes are not sealed after the first coat, air and moisture may penetrate the coating exposing the surface to further damage. Apply additional coats to achieve the desired dft for the appropriate protection for the project.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tom Miller, mostly in Dearborn on Tuesday, March 22, 2016 - 06:13 am:

(Re: 2:25 PM comment Monday)

Dave,

I couldn't resist saying something in regards to Don's "immerse" comment. Obviously he doesn't have a pool filled with Rust Bullet. He does do great work with the stuff. I've seen cars he painted at the Old Car Festival and his work is first class. I've stopped by his home on occasion and last week I looked over his Centerdoor still in progress shown in the photo above.

I've used POR and KBS products. Both of these have peeled if the metal is new and doesn't have sufficient tooth for a mechanical bond. I don't see this happening with the Rust Bullet product where I sanded a new panel and applied the stuff.

Anyone who has seen my cars instantly knows I'm an amateur painter who is still learning. As a kid who started playing with painting in the seventies, I was told the only way Bondo will hold is if you apply it to bare metal roughed with a 40 grit or more coarse disk. Now I'm seeing the pros at shops do the filler over cured primers. This amazes me, I'm a guy who still has a can of lacquer based Dupont Fill & Sand on the shelf. That lacquer primer is still sitting there; I'm seeing good results with Don's method. Applying it in some places with a fine roller appeals to me more than dressing up in a space suit and wearing my Hobby Air. I'm using it on my '26 Touring and I'm happy so far.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Dufault on Tuesday, March 22, 2016 - 07:52 am:

Thanks Tom,

Yes, that "i" word got me thinking....there's a tremendous amount of creativity shown by some Forum members, and it would not have surprised me to learn of some sort of "automobile rotisserie" fitted with a pan or basin of sorts to contain a fully submerged body....as in soaking utility poles or hot dip galvanizing. Just wondered if in fact something like that existed.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Don Booth@ Bay City, Mi on Tuesday, March 22, 2016 - 08:15 am:

Ok, "immerse" is a deceiving term. Allow me to rephrase, if I may? Brush, spray and pour it on the entire car inside and out. Including the top wood and floor boards pillars and under pinning's. The point is the entire body and frame are coated with Rustbullet.

Tom, thank you so much for the complement! It means a lot coming from you !! However, "First Class" should be changed to "Economy Class" :-) Thank you.


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