Engines

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: Engines
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John P. Steele, Montana on Wednesday, March 23, 2016 - 11:30 pm:

Mike Bender, Nick Nickolas and myself left Chickasha on Friday and went to Nicks house to work on a project I'd been thinking about for ten years. It started to take life several years ago and we may finish the engines tomorrow.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John P. Steele, Montana on Wednesday, March 23, 2016 - 11:33 pm:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les VonNordheim on Thursday, March 24, 2016 - 01:16 am:

What head are you using with the very high pop up pistons? Looks like some Killer compression for that engine. Interesting....what is adapted on the rear? Thanks for posting.....please provide more information as things develop.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Thursday, March 24, 2016 - 01:21 am:

Yes I'm curious about the Pistons too!! I'll need to order Pistons for my BB Rajo soon and would appreciate any advice/ opinions!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Barrett in Auburn Ca. on Thursday, March 24, 2016 - 03:11 am:

Looks like high compression single ignition Rajo B, by the configuration of the pistons. Looks nice. Scat crank and rods, drilled for pressure. Fronty style water manifold. A bad news model T engine for sure. Big question is, what's the unusual apparatus at the back end? Looks like a setup for a seal on the crank flange and a drive sprocket. Marine or aircraft? Zamboni ice rink refinisher?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Bennett - Australia on Thursday, March 24, 2016 - 04:05 am:

One engine has a flywheel, presumably for a T transmission. The other has not, but does show something of a pan. Perhaps they are going to be linked.

Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John P. Steele, Montana on Thursday, March 24, 2016 - 07:57 am:

Les, the pistons are Ross. Nick Nicholas (spelled correctly this time) worked with Ross five or six years ago when he was building his Fronty to design them.
The cam is a 3.20 lift and was the creation of Larry Young and Mike, possibly others.
Les V. The heads are 16 valve Roof BB's. 8:75-1. Of the people we know 8:25-1 was the highest we found that had been done with babbitt mains. Consensus was that if we can keep the oil cool we will be ok.
Nick and Mike have done most of the machining. Occasionally they stuck me on the lathe, mostly to keep me out of their hair. I say that loosely in Mikes case.
Long days! We have gone way over are three day limit to work together this time, but so far there has been no gun play. :-)
I'm sure Nick and Mike will chime in on this. We have lots of pictures. It's almost 6:00am time to head out to the shop. Mike was out there at 4:00am yesterday. Quite around here this morning.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Thursday, March 24, 2016 - 08:17 am:

John
Thank you for the info. Are you planning to run the BB as single ignition? Of corse I am very curious as I have a BB and had built a dual plug ignition distributor conversion for a Bosch.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Thursday, March 24, 2016 - 09:42 am:

John
My apologies. I missed the 16 valve Roof part. So these Pistons would work for my 16 valve Roof as well. Of course it isn't the BB version. Can I get a Ross part number please???


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stan Howe Helena, Montana on Thursday, March 24, 2016 - 10:58 am:

WOW!!!

The SPEEDY JOHN STEELE Museum of Speed will be the next step!!!!

That looks like a great project, I am anxious to hear it run.

What probably impresses me as much as anything is how clean that shop is... Not like mine!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Bender Tulsa Oklahoma on Thursday, March 24, 2016 - 10:58 am:

Less

No part number because each head will CC at a different volume. We talk to Ross about CC volume and the CR that we want along with some addition information. Call Ross and speak with Chris, let him know that these pistons are what I ordered under John Steels name and it will help in the question answer part. Call me if you like 9182602525.
Job card for the pistons 137888


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Bender Tulsa Oklahoma on Thursday, March 24, 2016 - 11:03 am:

Another picture of the front engine of the twin set up. Lots of work. Need to finish oil lines


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John P. Steele, Montana on Thursday, March 24, 2016 - 11:11 am:

We are at a momentary stand still waiting for some overnight mail. One wrong ring the package is goofing up things. Erik the pan set is my design. I have a marine pan, a pan for conversion to a Model A tranny and one I think for a plane. In the end I went back chopping up a pan, adding some length, making a plate for a seal and a cover. After a little fitting we are pretty happy with the way it came out. We will know more once were running as to how well it works. We also thought a T based Zamboni might be a cool project. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Longbranch,WA on Thursday, March 24, 2016 - 11:22 am:

My "Eye Doc" owns a Zamboni & I've been trying to convince him that a nice Scat crank O.H. would do just fine in the old girl !

Nice progress fella's - John could have informed folks this is the beginning of a "twin engine" Fire Breather !!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rich Chillingworth on Thursday, March 24, 2016 - 11:38 am:

Great looking engine and engineering!

Here is an example of an early Zamboni.


Rich C.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Robison on Thursday, March 24, 2016 - 01:28 pm:

Twin engine?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Robison on Thursday, March 24, 2016 - 01:31 pm:

Oops, I see Mike B said it was a twin engine.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank Harris from Long Beach, CA on Thursday, March 24, 2016 - 02:45 pm:

These are the Ross pistons we had made for our BBR Rajo cross-flow engine. We are using a Nissan distributor from a NAP-Z truck from the mid 1980's. The engines in those trucks had two spark plugs per cylinder.

We ramped the pistons so that the mixture could reach the twin sparkplugs. Then we had to add metal to the front and back of the pistons in order to raise the compression. We are using the Miller tubular rods that Chris Egsgaard had made for this engine.

We are using full oil pressure with a trick sump.
I tried to show the sump but the file was too big.

ross


miller rods


sump




modified sump


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Thursday, March 24, 2016 - 03:27 pm:

Frank
Do you have any file/ reference numbers that Ross might have so I can order similar?
Thx


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank Harris from Long Beach, CA on Thursday, March 24, 2016 - 03:53 pm:

no but if you call Ross and ask them if they have the number let them know that they were purchased by Dick Nuss. Here is a picture of the blanks as received from Ross before machining.



Ross


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Barrett in Auburn Ca. on Thursday, March 24, 2016 - 06:18 pm:

John, we are running a 9.5:1 Gemsa head with a Scat crank on Babbitt mains with no problems. Pressure oiling, of course. We are up shifting at 4800 RPM and the engine has been way over 6000 free winding. This is a race engine so we open it up to inspect it frequently, and the mains look great. I kept the bearings a bit thinner than stock and run .0015" clearance. So far so good. The life expectancy of this engine is short but VERY exciting.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Thursday, March 24, 2016 - 06:35 pm:

Frank
OK last pictures explains a lot!! I see that the tops were custom machined by you guys. This all helps.
I like your oil pickup by the centre main. Quite "sneaky"!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John P. Steele, Montana on Friday, March 25, 2016 - 08:08 am:

Erik thank you for the info. I've seen your hill climb times in FAST. You have a very fast T. It's fun to see a Model T that beats up on the Model A and B guys.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Barrett in Auburn Ca. on Friday, March 25, 2016 - 05:14 pm:

John, that's exactly why we built it. We wanted to beat the model A guys at the game they have dominated since the demise of the Long Beach climb. As the times show, we are getting very close. At the last race I was was just a couple tenths of a second behind the fastest car, a very high stakes car driven by a lady who is legendary in the FAST club. We lost the crown is the first thirty feet of the race, having problems launching as the engine really doesn't come on until about 2500 RPM. We have installed a torque converter with a high stall speed, so I can stand on the brake in drive and bring it up to about 2000 and launch it from there. I think this is the year we will prevail. Most of the FAST people are sportsmanlike and supportive of our endeavor, knowing that if we beat them they will just have to step up their game. That's racing. A few are outright hostile. Those are the ones we enjoy spanking the most.


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