Nice looking car, represented in a good ad with lots of pictures!
All you need are the correct wheels and get rid of the brass on the lights and it should be a nice original car.
The lights are correct. I sold a set years ago. The Dayton wheels, while aftermarket, are quite nice. Be a nice T for someone
I believe that this is the one that was at Chickasha last week. It is a very mice T.
With the engine # it has it's well into the last of the 16 model, I doubt if it would have had the brass on the lights by then, so I agree with Dave but with Canadian builds anything is possible.
Never seen any original 1916 Canadian Fords without brass trim on the lights in Australia unless as is usual the later owners decided to make them as in the USA.
Right up to August 1916 Ford Canada literature shows brass trim on all models.
Another point that needs to be determined conclusively, anyone have some evidence that brass is wrong?
The 1916 power house T is supposed to be the most original T we have in Australia for any reference. It has no brass trim.
Frank, you couldn't have picked a better example of what I was refering to.
You will note that the car was "restored" in the 1980's. Painted black instead of dark blue and other features "fixed" ( as per an American 1916 Ford).
In the 1970's I was a student at the Sydney TAFE college. The curator of the Power house Museum at the time was a member of the VCCA and I often spent lunch hours and other times with him. I saw the car numerous times it was way different in appearance than when it was restored. From memory some of the lights were missing.
Although I never got into close investigation of the car then it had been subject to lots of issues and although fairly complete was far from a truly never touched original example.
The Hunt Bros obtained the car a long time after 1916 lots of time for alterations.
The Power House museum is subject for demolition in the future and a lot of us intend to visit it soon. I"ll take a magnet with me.
Looking forward to some other replies especially from Canada.
It would be interesting to find out, some time back I believe it was mentioned that the brass was in big demand for the war effort so cars got less, it seems strange that Canada, being part of the empire, could hang on longer with brass fittings than the US.
Maybe Ford was using up brass lamp trim which they had on hand, by putting it on the Canadian cars?
Canadian T's used lamps made in Canada by Classco. They did not necessarily have to follow any of the rules for US production.
I have not seen any 1915 - 16 Classco lamps that were not brass trimmed - but then I don't claim to be any sort of expert on them either.
The car is a magnificent looking example, and I bet it runs as good as it looks from the description.
in one photo the dayton wheels are cream color, thats the correct color, and dayton started in 16, so period correct for the car.
Every Canadian car I've seen shows that changes were made at the same time as American cars with the slant windshield being the lone exception. I once met a Canadian '16 owner at a show. I told him it was good to see that he didn't brass up the lights like so many do. He said he thought about it but wanted to keep it original since the lights were black before he restored it. Because the wheels were changed on the Ebay car, we can assume the owner was more concerned with making the car look cute than keeping it original so it only seems likely that he brassed up the lights as well.
We are all learning more and more about the cars. And there is still so much that is to be discovered, shared, and documented. A couple of documented known areas where Ford of Canada did things on a different time line that Ford USA:
Below items were introduced by Ford of Canada before they were introduced by Ford USA:
1. Model C Ford produced in Canada starting in Oct 1904 introduced side doors to enter the rear compartment while the USA Model C Ford’s continued the older rear entrance door to the rear seat. Ford USA went to the side entrance rear doors my the middle of 1905. (Ref Chapter 4 pages 27 & 28 of “Pate’s Early Ford Automobile Encyclopedia” available from the club.) Not sure if they both went to the running boards at the same time or not.
2. Ford of Canada offered 30 x 3 1/2 inch clincher tires/wheels on all four wheels. Ford USA did not offer those until 1919 with the introduction of the demountable rims. And Ford USA still offered the non-demountable 30 x 3 front wheels up through 1925 for the open cars. When the 1926 model year cars were introduced the 30 x 3 non-demountable was no longer offered on the new cars, but they now offered non-demountable clinchers of 30 x 3 1/2 inch on all four wheels on the open cars – 18 years after Ford of Canada made those standard.
3. Ford of Canada offered both right and left front opening doors on the tourings starting with the 1912 model year while Ford USA did not offer that until the 1926 model year.
4. Ford of Canada offered the lower rear axle fill plug around 1915-16 [ref: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/506218/594687.html?1450228838 see last posting] while the USA did not go to the lower rear axle fill plug until during 1919 production [http://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/P-R.htm#rax2].
5. As you mentioned Ford of Canada introduced the slant windshield 2 – 3 years (depending on the source) before Ford USA offered it.
6. Ford of Canada introduced the one man tops 2-3 years (depending on the source) before Ford USA offered them.
7. Ford of Canada introduced the open car windshield that allowed both the upper and lower glass to be opened with the 1920 or 1921 (depending on the reference) model year. Ford USA did not offer the lower windshield opening on the open car windshield until the 1926 model year ( ref: http://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/U-Z.htm#wshld ).
Below listed items were phased out by Ford USA before they were phased out by Ford of Canada.
1. Ford USA phased out the ribbed pedals during 1915 [ref: http://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/doc15.htm see Mar 22, 1915 entry. See also http://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/doc15.htm where Bruce stated: “The transmission foot pedals were changed from the “C-R-B” markings to a vertical-ribbed pattern. This in turn gave way to the plain pedals during calendar 1915 (before September).” But the ribbed pedals on Canadian cars were continued until around 1925 ref: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/118802/121088.html?1263563059 By David Chantrell - Adelaide, Australia on Friday, January 15, 2010 - 09:44 am: “Some other Canadian peculiararities we have found over the years, but to name a few: Ribbed pedals - 1915 to early 1925.” [From memory – and we know that is not as good as references – I think there are other references that the ribbed pedals went away a few years earlier.]
2. The cast iron steering wheel spider was phased out by Ford USA before Canada. The 16 inch pressed steel spider was introduced in the USA 1920-1925 Pressed-steel spider, painted black. 16” O.D. wheel. (June 1920) ref: http://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/S-T.htm#stw The 16” pressed steel spider was not introduced in Canadian chassis shipped to Australia until Pressed steering 16" spider - first appeared on the "Dalgety" assembled Ford released on 1st July 1925.
3. Ford of Canada lagged the USA introduction of the Model T and the 1928 Model A by several months.
Dave, thank you for posting and sharing your observations. Many items apparently did change around the same time. Perhaps many more of them than those that did not.
It’s late so I need to stop for the night. But there are enough differences in when Ford USA changed and when Ford of Canada changed some items that I believe it is likely some other items also changed at different times. And to help document that, I recommend we all support Russ Furstnow’s efforts to document the differences between the USA and the Canadian built Fords. That will include time differences. Probably not day’s but for sure when it was years.
And I hope whoever purchases the Canadian touring will give us some additional information such as the body number....
Hap l9l5 cut off
For Frank and anyone else interested I went to the Powerhouse museum with my eldest grandson and a magnet in my pocket today.
Alas, no 1916 Model T on show, as a matter of fact not much on show, only two cars in the whole museum. a Bugatti race car from the 1920's and a new Honda electric car.
On Monday the state government announced it was scrapping the museum and building a new one in the west of the city.
It looks like they have been working toward this for a while now. From the original museum which was way smaller and was a great museum it now has the poorest and least amount of display you could imagine.
So plan "B" is to see one of my contacts and see if I can talk someone with access to the Model T to check for me as to what lights are on it. ( if its still there somewhere in their store.)