Coils not buzzing on crank but buzz on electric start

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: Coils not buzzing on crank but buzz on electric start
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Blanchard on Sunday, March 27, 2016 - 08:41 pm:

Okay, not home yet from Colorado but decided to start asking some more Questions...
My 20 is electric and I like to start it with the crank (she has kicked back on me a few times already, it's a good thing I crank with my left hand!)
Anyway, last few times I have tried to start on crank but the coils don't buzz as I crank. (key is on battery)
So I tap on my starter then coils start buzzing. I turn the crank and she usually starts on first crank.
If I am running then shut off, and I don't get a hot start (I have had a few so far... Fun when it hot starts!) I crank once and she starts.
Next day, same thing happens .... So what's going on?

Second question: I have yet to try but can one start the electric T's on mag?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Sunday, March 27, 2016 - 09:34 pm:

You have to 'pull through' enough of a revolution for the timer contacts to ground, if you only pull small amount, might be in-between contacts, so no ground path to fire a coil.

For kick-back, shouldn't do that, re-check carefully your timing or slop in the spark lever assembly.

As for 'free starts', timing, gas, and compression and hot spark have to meet at the same junction and the exact time.

Try switching off, and at the same time pull down the throttle, placing a bit more gas into the cylinders for the next 'free start'.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Sunday, March 27, 2016 - 09:48 pm:

The answer to the second question is yes, if the mag is in good enough shape. Starter or no starter should make no difference in that.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peter Claverie, Memphis TN on Sunday, March 27, 2016 - 11:21 pm:

Wait! You said that on Batt. you get no buzz as you crank, UNTIL you tap on the starter??!!??

You must have some kind of loose connection somewhere. With no further information, it's impossible to even guess where. But as you described it, it makes no sense at all.

I will hazard one guess, however. That is, there's no direct connection between the act of tapping on the starter, and getting a buzz from your coils. It must have something to do with the physical act -- opening the hood, maybe jiggling a wire connected to the terminal block, or something like that.

Try tightening every electrical connect you can find, and see....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Monday, March 28, 2016 - 11:48 am:

The coils will only buzz if the timer contact is in the right position. If you get a kick when you turn the crank, your timer is too advanced. Push the spark lever all the way to the top to the full retard position. Then with the ignition switch off, pull out spark plug #1. Put your thumb into the hole in the head and turn the crank until you feel pressure against your thumb. continue slowly turning the crank until the pressure just stops. The pin through the front pulley (the pin which is contacted by the crank when you push in to crank the engine)should be horizontal. Slightly rotate the crank until the pin is just a bit lower on the right (as you face the car) side is just lower than the left side. If you imagine a clock hand, it would be between three and four on a clock dial. Now remove the rod from the timer and turn on the ignition switch. rotate the timer to the point where the spark just begins when you rotate the timer clockwise and just stops when you rotate it counter clockwise. Now put the rod back on without rotating the timer. If you can't fit the rod into the hole in the timer, you will need to bend the rod to make it fit. That is the position for a retarded spark. The engine should not kick at that setting.

Now the engine should not kick when you have the spark lever up, and you can turn the crank slowly. You should get two coil buzzes for each turn of the crank. The coils will buzz in this order 1,2,4,3. Remember to put the spark plug back into the head and connect the wire before you try to start the car.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Monday, March 28, 2016 - 11:59 am:

Here are a couple things to check. 1. The spark lever should be up. You might have the timer too advanced and when the spark lever is up the spark still comes too early. It should come 15 degrees past top dead center when retarded. It should not kick at all if you try to start with crank and the spark lever is up.

2. When you crank start with the key to batt you should hear the coils buzz every time the timer rotor passes a contact. In between contacts it will not buzz. If the key is set to mag. you will not hear the coils buzz as you crank.

Also, you will only get a "free start" if there is fuel in the cylinder and the timer rotor is in contact at the time the key is turned to batt. If it stops in between contacts, you will not get a "free start".
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Monday, March 28, 2016 - 12:00 pm:

I think Peter nailed it!! There is a connection problem, likely at the starter switch. I suspect that that is where the power wire to the ignition switch gets connected to the battery side of things. Probably dirty there. Of course it could be the ground cable or the engine ground to the frame. When you hit the starter switch the current surge arcs and completes the connection


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Monday, March 28, 2016 - 12:16 pm:

Is it possible that the main yellow feed wire is mistakenly connected to the starter side of the starter switch, instead of to the battery side? In that case, the electrics would only be powered when the starter button was depressed. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Blanchard on Monday, March 28, 2016 - 02:49 pm:

Alright! This is the best club! I get back Wednesday morning so I will start with cleaning and making sure the connections are tight, then try things out.
Also going to adjust the timing.
Let see how things go....
Thanks again guys!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Garnet on Monday, March 28, 2016 - 07:52 pm:

Go through every electrical connection Robert. Battery, firewall terminal block, ignition switch and ammeter ... and finally the coilbox and timer connections. A loose connection anywhere in there is going to be a problem.

The kickback or backfiring problem is dangerous and has to be corrected. Go through the entire mechanism and correct any looseness or slop between the advance rod and the timer itself. This has to be good and tight. Then and only then check how the spark timing is set. Setting up spark timing with slop in the system is wasting your time, as well as still leaving you with the possibility of a broken wrist.

Regards,
Garnet


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Monday, March 28, 2016 - 08:01 pm:

Peter is on to something. I'm going to stretch my neck and say it's the main body/engine feed wire on the starter switch that's losing contact and regaining it after hitting the starter button. "Lectricity's funny that way.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Duey_C on Thursday, March 31, 2016 - 11:29 pm:

And Mark's suggestion that the yellow main feed wire happened to get put on the wrong side of the starter switch.
My mind has gapped out like that before.


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