How to straighten the pan

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: How to straighten the pan
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Jensen on Saturday, April 02, 2016 - 11:18 pm:

I am in the process of putting the engine and transmission back together from the coil ring that came apart. I am to the part where I need to get the fourth main lined up with the pan. The pan needs to go up about 1/8" to get the ball cap lined up.
I searched the forum for how to get the pan aligned and did not come up with many instructions, except for using the pan jig. There were a few that suggested using a sledge hammer and a block of wood. I am not sure where to hit the pan to get it to move up at the u-joint end.
Thanks


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Barrett in Auburn Ca. on Saturday, April 02, 2016 - 11:43 pm:

There is no real good way to do it without a pan jig. It has been done with straight edges and the like. Usually the rear end of the pan is bent down about 1/8"-1/4". They bend just behind the inspection pan hole. Early pans and pre-1926 four dip pans are the worst. There must be somebody in the Arizona/New Mexico area with a jig. I would do it with mine for a song but we are in California. My KRW jig came from the Ford dealer in Lordsburg, NM. You need a straight pan for dependable touring.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Bennett - Australia on Sunday, April 03, 2016 - 06:04 am:

Dan, I found just fitting the trans cover as the last operation was enough to upset the rear bearing alignment when re-assembling my 1915 speedster motor. This was with a perfectly straight pan prior to the fitment.

In the end I resorted to a little gentle persuasion using a porta power. My pan was bent upwards at the rear so I looped a chain around the back of the motor and around the snout at the front and applied pressure with the porta power pushing on a wooden block under the pan. Yours would need to push on the head to lift the rear. You need to be gentle and take it a little at a time, letting the jack off and checking as you go.

Others may do it differently. Later pans with the turned down edges should hold their shape better than the early ones.

Hope this helps.
Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Sunday, April 03, 2016 - 08:31 am:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCUIal3HVNY&index=33&list=PLYG_lIhIwKyLG8WQm4tGm KK1nA0Yctp6G


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Sunday, April 03, 2016 - 04:30 pm:

You need to find someone with a pan jig. Try contacting one of the Arizona clubs and ask for help. Someone there might have such a jig. The only one I know of and might be the nearest to you would be the Tin Shed in Southern California.

Once you have the crankcase properly aligned, install it to the engine block first Then turn it engine side up and place the hogs head on and start the bolts, but do not tighten them. Turn the engine nose down so that the crankcase hangs down and slip on the 4th main. It should slip on without binding and you can install the two bottom bolts into the crankcase and the 4th main should move on the driven plate. Now tighten up the hogs head and block. If everything is correct you should still be able to move the 4th main on those two bolts at the back of the crankcase.

Now you should be ready to install into the car.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By keith g barrier Savannah Tn. on Sunday, April 03, 2016 - 05:48 pm:

Some one in our club has a 26-7 block with hogs head attached and lined up straight that does the job pretty well. You can't hammer on it but it gives you the indication of where to do the work. KGB


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Jensen on Sunday, April 03, 2016 - 06:01 pm:

The Tucson Touring T's has their monthly meeting tonight. I will ask if anyone has a jig nearby. Still kind of new to the Model T's.

Thanks for all of the help.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Jensen on Sunday, April 03, 2016 - 06:03 pm:

The Tucson Touring T's has their monthly meeting tonight. I will ask if anyone has a jig nearby. Still kind of new to the Model T's.

Thanks for all of the help.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Bennett - Australia on Sunday, April 03, 2016 - 07:34 pm:

Norman, your procedure for assembly works well, but I notice you add the rider, "If everthing is correct..."
My 1915 pan, correctly trued on an engineer's surface plate, was pulled out of line when the hogshead was bolted up. There seemed to me to be no sense in removing the pan and trying again, so I resorted to the process I outlined.

I agree with the other posters that the pan should be correctly aligned on a jig, but even then, everything may not end up as hoped. The jig may not be the final answer.

Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kohnke Rebabbitting, Clare, Iowa on Tuesday, April 05, 2016 - 12:02 am:

The first thing before any jig, is never try to straighten a pan with the inspection plate on. I have seen this many times in pictures, and videos, it will not work.

The bow in or out, has to be corrected, not just close.

The arms have to be straight, or when you put in the bolts in the frame, and you have to use a punch to line up the holes and they always want to move, that will twist the back 1/2 of the pan out of alignment.

Bolting a pan to the block will all ways come out to be the same depending on what ever alignment it is in at that moment, it will not change until the pan changes.

Bolting on a hogs head will never put a pan out of alignment, as long as you use the correct type and thickness of gaskets.

Dan, it sounds to me like the pan is bowed off a straight line, on the hogs head part. I agree, get it on a Wilson jig.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dexter Doucet on Thursday, April 07, 2016 - 05:22 am:

Mike Bender's video on pan straightening a pan with a jig was basically awesome. I got a question, probably should ask Mike himself. Was the pan in his video twisted? Was this possibly a worst case scenario in pan straightening? Some one please give quality input. Don't leave me hanging Guys.

I've got a 26 pan needs to go on a jig. I've got a buddy 150 miles away with one. But he's 89 years old and doesn't always feel good enough to have to fool with that sort of thing plus I don't think he's comfortable turning me loose on my own without him watching. If my buddy John Tannehill sees this and has a jig himself it would be of great benefit if he could help me out. I also need to check some rods for straightness.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Thursday, April 07, 2016 - 05:45 am:

Dexter, even if every T pan should be tested, it's less risk for a bad case of distortion with a 26/27 pan than with the earlier ones since it has been protected somewhat from bending by the hogshead being bolted to the engine block. The rear engine mounts are often off, though, due to the engine being rough handled after it came out of the car..


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Will Copeland - West Melbourne Florida on Thursday, April 07, 2016 - 06:32 pm:

Gator Gould has a pan jig. Send it to him


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Friday, April 08, 2016 - 09:27 am:

I find it amazing that some provision wasn't made to keep the pan straight when assembling the engine/hogs head. Pre 26/27 with it's hh to block bolts at least. The big problem as I see it is assembling the hogs head to the block and pan. An incorrect thickness on the hh gasket and you're screwed even if the pan has been straightened. I watched Mike's video and was surprised at how easy it is to torque the pan out of shape. It's like it almost has to happen. The nose and tail are real problem areas. I'm guessing from what I read here that there's no "approved" way to take care of these 2 things once you're assembled. I've never pulled/replaced a hh and am not sure how you replace it without torqueing the pan.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Bennett - Australia on Friday, April 08, 2016 - 08:15 pm:

Charlie, that's exactly what I found with my 1915 pan. With just the flat edge to the pan, it distorts even more easily than the later ones with the rolled over edges. I left mine assembled and mis-aligned, for three days, while I mulled over the problem. It was no use expending another set of gaskets and going through the same process, only to end up in the same predicament.

The portapower and chains did the job with no dramas. Once all was in proper alignment, I used two countersunk set screws to hold the fourth main in place.

Allan from down under.


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