I recently inherited my fathers 1914 Model T touring car. It is not in the best of shape but far better off that most of the barn finds I have seen here.
I have few questions:
The coils were replaced with a single later model coil. I haven't checked to see if it is a 12 or 6 volt. He had it set up to run the spark through the distributor to the plugs, as they do on later model cars. He use to brag about how well it ran. I found 8 coils in the garage and haven't had a chance to test or tune them yet. I am still researching a way to test them without the test equipment. I have a number of meters and that I can rig up. What I haven't found is if they can be tested with a 12v or a 6v battery. Will it make a difference. I will take the headlights apart to see if they are 6 or 12 volt.
I also need to drain and replace the oil. Any advice on this would be helpful.

Here's more than you need. The parts about electric start don't apply to 1914, but most of it is good for any T.

http://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG93.html

And here's more that you need:

http://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG80.html

Welcome to the affliction! That looks like a good start to a wonderful car. The '14 touring is a favorite for many here. Last of the gas headlamps (originally), near the end of the brass radiator era for Ts. Yet a little more improved and more reliable than the earlier years.
One thing that you should find out soon about it, is that the '14 style was a bit of a long running "model" year. The true '13 had a weakness in the touring body section, and the body was changed early to the '14 style, actually about July '13, still the '13 model year. Changes for the newer yet '15 style ran into manufacturing problems and delays. The '14 style was assembled at least as late as April of 1915. They had '15 engine numbers and may have been sold either as '14s or as '15s when new. Over the years, most of the late '14 and early '15 built '14 style cars have been called to be '14s, regardless of exactly when they were built. You may find your car could be one of those transitional cars, I cannot tell from the photos. The front fenders are I think the late '14 and early '15 style, but they could have been changed at some time.
All in all, it looks a lot better than my spring '15 runabout did when I began restoring it last year. I hope to be able to drive it by the end of this year.
Your car appears to have Hassler shock absorbers on the front, these were available by 1915, and can be considered "era correct". The wheels appear to be later wheels. You get to decide just how correct you want to make it. Many more and better photos could help some of us to help you identify what is or is not correct for the car.
Congratulations on getting your dad's car!
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2

Frank lives in Burbank, CA


Freighter Jim

Thank you Steve and Wayne for all of the information. The serial numbers look like the Engine is from May 1915 and the VIN under the seat is from October 1915. The chart that I was looking at doesn't say if it was for the motor or the body numbers. I don't know if I am assuming correctly that the chart is for both.
the Body VIN is 914254860 and the motor is 7737816.


The car looks like it has a starter and a generator. I will post more picts tomorrow.
Here is a picture of the distributor or timer?

Frank,

Welcome to the forum and to a fun hobby. A couple of things to add to the what has been posted.

From the photo and your description, what you are calling a body VIN is actually the number the company that made the body placed on the body before it was sent to Ford for assembly onto the chassis. Over the years there were various body companies that were hired by Ford to build bodies. The would build them to Ford’s general specifications (i.e. they had to look about the same; they had to fit on the chassis without any modifications etc.)
Your photo is shown again below:



Our current understanding is the 9 dot 14 dot above stands for September 1914. That fits great with the 1914 body style that you have. That would indicate the body was produced in Sep 1914 (we are still checking to see if there is any evidence that the date might be something other than the calendar year and month the body was made – but so far that appears to be the most logical explanation.) For a more thorough explanation of body numbers, different body makers (including scans of the tags that came with a new 1914 Model T Ford and listed body makers please see the posting “Home for the Holidays” at: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/29/40322.html)

If you look on your front seat heel panel (the area the heel of your shoe would hit if you were sitting on the seat normally and you moved your foot towards the back of the car) I believe you will probably find a letter stamped there. Based on the style of the body tag, it is likely to be the letter “B”. If so that indicates the outside Body maker was Beaudett (which is also spelled Beaudette and is usually referred to as Pontiac in the Ford records). Below is a photo Jerry Huelsbeck kindly sent me back in 2008 of the “B” stamped into the front heel panel of his touring.



Other letters were sometimes also stamped there by some of the other body makers. The same thread on the body numbers shows several of the body maker letters and where to look for them. Sometimes the letter “B” is on the back seat heel panel.

I would strongly urge you to contact the local Model T Club near you. Please see: http://www.mtfca.com/clubpages/chapters.htm and http://www.modelt.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=5&Itemid=15 for the listings. There is a good chance there is another 1914 touring or a touring that is close to a 1914 year car that you can look at etc.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off

Your engine may have been changed out at some time, it was built late in may 1923.
Do you wish to go back to buzz coils as original and fully restore the car, or would you like to test it out a little with the distributor in "as found" condition first?

Having some fun with it first may raise the motivation to do an expensive and time consuming restoration (it'll always take more time and cost more money than first estimated...)

Great looking project Frank!

You own a car that was built in 1914, but it was built in Ford's 1915 model / fiscal year. The big change for the 1915 model year at first was the introduction of a new "billed" front fender, less brass on the cowl and tail lamps, and integral cowl lamp brackets. Here is how your car looked when it was new:

Welcome, be prepared here for everything! KGB

Fiscal year 1915 is from August 1, 1914 to July 31, 1915

Engine serial numbers for the 1915 model year are from 670,000 to 856,513.

Ford built 244,181 tourings in FY 1915. There was a new touring body style introduced in February 1915. Cars like yours Frank probably accounted for about 180,000 cars out of the total.

Welcome Frank - Your first picture indicates that you have a good start by being in front of a double deck hamburger sign.

Frank,Do you have any of the lights head,side,or tail? If you have to find them remember they came in sets of 5 all the same brand.Good luck from Bud a 14 owner.

Frank,

Roger is correct that your engine number 7,737,816 is included in the engine serial numbers listed on the Ford Motor Company USA engine logs for May 31, 1923. They have serial number 7,731,514 to 7,738,372 listed. And if your engine was assembled at the main plant it would have been assembled that day. But if it was assembled at one of the branch plants and the number was stamped on the engine there, it could have been days, weeks or even a month or so later that the engine was assembled.

Our hobby has a wide range of folks. Some just enjoy driving the T (and from serial number 2500ish and up they all drive about the same). And in that case it doesn't matter what year parts are on the car as long as it is safe (note Ford intentionally designed the new parts to still work on the older cars. That is why you can drop any Model T engine into any Model T chassis and with some minor changes. (Example of changes -- need the correct water outlet, fan, floorboard holes for the pedals, wiring for electrical, need to change out the steering bracket on the 1909-1919 RHD if the engine has a normal generator or you can remove the generator and it fits fine, etc.). But in some cases some you have to be more careful to have the correct parts for the set up you have. For example, putting the later year tie rod on an earlier car can allow/cause your steering to go over center. So that when you turn the wheel to the left the car goes to the right. Yes, it will fit the earlier cars but no it is not safe. (See: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/257047/300409.html )

Some folks like to work on the cars. It can be fun to bring one back to life. Or to maintain one etc.

Some folks like to restore them to as close to the way they came from the factory that they can.

Some folks like to make them go faster and stop better – many but not all of those have a speedster.

Some folks like to keep them a close to the way they were when they were found. That is especially helpful when the car still has the original paint, upholstery, etc. and has been stored very carefully in the past.

Some folks like to research the cars. (You need to keep an eye on folks like that – I may go off the deep end…)

Many folks my self included do more than one of those and in some cases some folks do all of those. So there isn’t a right or wrong way to enjoy your car (assumes that if it isn’t safe – you won’t enjoy it – caution some safety issues are hidden and you don’t find out about it until the brakes don’t work see: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/257047/277093.html?1332591272 so in that case you may enjoy it up until the failure – moral – check and replace as appropriate before driving where you need brakes. ) For other safety related items please see: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/506218/576808.html Don’t panic, Lots of folks have been driving Ts for years and they are safe if you take care of them, drive them appropriately, garage them safely (they have caused fires in the past see the thread), etc.). And I personally think if you treat them kindly they will be more loyal. It has worked for me – Blackie my 1915 has followed me all over the USA and never bit me once. (Don’t try to take their food bowl away while they are eating – oops that is a different thread.)

Note Roger’s comment, “Your engine may have been changed out at some time…” It was common back in the day and is still common today for folks to swap an engine. And it is especially common when someone has access to another good engine for substantially less than the cost of rebuilding the original engine. Some folks keep a spare rebuilt engine or known good running used engine and trade them out while the other engine is rebuilt.

But, depending on who did what when, it is also possible that someone combined a later 1923 and the car your body was on to make the current car. Again, it would run and drive just like a Model T. So as you discover more about the car you should be able to better determine if they only used the earlier body parts on the 1923 chassis or if they only swapped the 1923 engine and demountable wheels into the early car. Or possibly some other combination of parts and perhaps even from additional cars.

Something else to look for – what is the VIN recorded on the title? Is it the 1923 engine number or by any chance the original engine number? Was your Father a packrat? Mine was. My dad still had the original engine to a 1942 car that he had replaced the engine in back in 1949. And when he sold the 1942 car in the 1980s he included the original engine. Any chance the original engine is still out there for your car? If they combined two Ts back in the 1950s – did they sell a 1923 with a 1914 or 1915 engine serial number? One of the members of our South Carolina club actually found the original engine for his car and it had not gone very far from where it had been removed years earlier.

Again, welcome to forum and have fun discovering and enjoying your T.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off

If it hasn't been said, Model T coils are uni-voltage. They will buzz on 6,8, or 12 volts and any safe automotive voltage used.

Jack Chidgey, one of our San Diego members has a car which was once owned by Bob Wyan the founder of Bob's Big Boy hamburgers. It's a very nice car.

Concerning testing the coils with a battery. You can test to see if they buzz, but they will soon burn out if you don't put a spark gap in the spark circuit. The side top post is for ground, the lower side post is for the high voltage spark, and the bottom post is for the battery (or magneto). A good coil will buzz when battery is applied, but the spark has to go somewhere, and if it doesn't have a gap to jump will burn a path within the coil or burn out the winding.

This test will only tell if you are getting a spark. It takes a good coil tester to determine the amperage drawn by the coil, and the quality of the spark.
Norm

I have good memories from Bob's on Sepulveda Blvd, Van Nuys Blvd, and Riverside Dr.
Adding a red touring just makes it better.
Congratulations to you Frank.

Thank you all for your warm response and welcome. Dad was a hoarder and I believe there is an other MT block. Haven't looked at the numbers bit it didn't come out of this car. He also has another complete model A motor that he suggested that I use for a 1929 Ford four door town sedan I bought from him when I was 12. I also have a '37 Ford truck that he left to restore.
There is a B embossed under the back seat.
I want to restore the T to where it was when he parked it in the mid '50s. He drove it in parades while campaigning for Congressman Ed Roybal and Jimmy Rosevelt when he ran for governor of Ca.
More to follow later.

Thank you all for your warm response and welcome. Dad was a hoarder and I believe there is an other MT block. Haven't looked at the numbers bit it didn't come out of this car. He also has another complete model A motor that he suggested that I use for a 1929 Ford four door town sedan I bought from him when I was 12. I also have a '37 Ford truck that he left to restore.
There is a B embossed under the back seat.
I want to restore the T to where it was when he parked it in the mid '50s. He drove it in parades while campaigning for Congressman Ed Roybal and Jimmy Rosevelt when he ran for governor of Ca.
More to follow later.

I had a nice conversation with Steve Jeff this afternoon. He suggested that I post pictures of some of the MT parts found in the garage. There are 2 coil boxes that are slightly different from the one in my 14 T.

Congratulations, Frank—and as we say, welcome to the affliction!

Someday, when you are displaying your restored Tin Lizzie, you will be asked the following questions:

How fast does it go?
Answer—Cruises at about 35 mph, top speed is between 45-50

How much did you pay for it?
Answer—If I didn't tell my wife, I'm certainly not going to tell you!

What year is that?
Answer—1914, the year Ford officially enacted the $5 work-day, settled on black as the only available paint color and "officially" inaugurated the moving, mass-production assembly line (I say "officially" because the assembly line came to be gradually, over a period of time, not overnight. _Some would argue that it took years—a point of contention, but for now, I'll leave it there). _The last Model T was manufactured by Ford Motor Company in the year 2001. _Yes, I said 2001! _It was part of a batch of six which were created in advance of the company's Centennial celebration which took place in 2003—and these were all 1914 model-year cars—that year chosen as the best representative of the entire 1908-1927 run of over 15-million Model T Fords (more than any American car ever made). _This makes your 1914 Ford a very unique Model T, indeed.

So okay, you definitely have a non-original distributor instead of a timer. _Lots of folks do convert to distributors for their reputed less fussy, more reliable nature. _Others will argue that the original low-voltage magneto, 4-coil, timer ignition system is perfectly reliable—another point of contention which, just recently, was passionately discussed in this forum. _For some folks, originality and authenticity are paramount concerns and for others, the main issue is the fun one gets out of one's Model T. _I'm sort of in the middle of the road on that issue.

Restoration concerns itself with four major issues: mechanical integrity, paint, upholstery and top. _When people go shopping for a car, those are their four major concerns. _In the area of the mechanical, it's important to ascertain whether your car has been re-equipped with bronze thrust-washers in the differential. _That's because babbitt, the material from which the original washers were made, deteriorate and crumble over time and create a significant safety issue. _You MUST have two modifications: bronze thrust-washers and a windshield made of modern safety-glass.

As you may already know, getting parts for your Model T is no problem at all and this forum is the single greatest source of authoritative information on how to "do it yourself."

Thanks for the welcome and information.
Can I say that the car was once owned by Henry Ford? ;-)

Sure you can - they all were, until they were handed over to the dealer ;)

Bud, here are pictures of some of the lights. The head lights have seal beams in them. The tail light is still oil.

Frank,I didn't know if your car had lights or not?My comment was ment to say if your were starting with none picking up one of these and two of those might not be your best bet? Get it running and when you get your first free start you will be hooked like the rest of us!! Bud in Wheeler,Mi.

Sweet touring Frank! Thank you for sharing!
And a sense of humor! :-)
Can I come over the next time you are "digging" for more treasures? ;-) I'd like to drool on that turning lathe a little bit.
Another wonderful thread here on mtfca!

I have a couple of extra lathes I want to sell. If anyone is interested. I also have a large black smith vice, heavy duty chain hoists and a 19th century drill press (just to mention a few).
Here is a picture of the vice. It's about 3' long.

Frank, the top coilbox with the switch on the front was for the later 1915-6 cars with the metal cowl. The sides of the box were made sloped to allow the coils to be replaced/removed. Later coilboxes had a solid rubber switch covered by a steel cover
The second one is from an improved car from 1926-7 and is bolted to the cylinder head.

Allan from down under.

Thanks Alan that is very helpful.

I do hope someone local picks up on your extra goodies. :-)
That vise needs a peg-leg extension. :-) Those ARE good vises.
And an old drill press? Mmmmm. :-)
Wishin' I was closer.