Door handles - exterior

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: Door handles - exterior
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Craig Stolpestad on Wednesday, April 13, 2016 - 06:42 am:

what years have the same exterior door handles? I find door handles for 26, 27 but I have a 25 and guessing they are the same. correct, or incorrect?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Eagle Idaho Falls on Wednesday, April 13, 2016 - 08:43 am:

This is the type my '25 Tudor has. The bakeolite often cracks. I nickel plated 2 of them and used bondo and they have held up well for 15 years.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Wednesday, April 13, 2016 - 09:32 am:

My 24 Coupe has the handles like the ones that R. Eagle shows in the pic.

The handles on my 24 still has some good originals still on it. BUT finding good ones may be getting harder. When you usually find them are usually in the shape like the one that Richard shows. If they are left outside or on a car that was outside for years the heat and weather is a sure sign they are shot. The bakelite material is not weather proof.

And the downside is nobody is making reproductions.

I believe the style changed to the later 26-27 style in mid to late 25 when Ford started introducing the later bodies.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Wednesday, April 13, 2016 - 09:38 am:

My 24 Coupe has the handles like the ones that R. Eagle shows in the pic.

The handles on my 24 still has some good originals still on it. BUT finding good ones may be getting harder. When you usually find them are usually in the shape like the one that Richard shows. If they are left outside or on a car that was outside for years the heat and weather is a sure sign they are shot. The bakelite material is not weather proof.

And the downside is nobody is making reproductions.

I believe the style changed to the later 26-27 style in mid to late 25 when Ford started introducing the later bodies.

If you do a search on the forum you'll find some posts showing the differences in the handles.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Eagle Idaho Falls on Wednesday, April 13, 2016 - 12:20 pm:

I think these could be reproduced if there was enough demand. People have found good ones or used a different type to get by so it might not be a profitable venture. A simple brass casting , plated and drilled and some keystock would be the major work. The bezel also would need to be made and plated. A better plastic than the bondo I used
is surely available.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Wednesday, April 13, 2016 - 01:17 pm:

Eastwood sells a steering wheel restoration kit for classic cars that had steering wheels made from plastic or whatever it was.
That may be an alternative filler to use for these type of handles.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Wednesday, April 13, 2016 - 11:53 pm:

I have used J B Weld to repair these type handles a few times. Painted a good dark brown or satin black they look really nice and last for years.
The '25 Studebaker I had many years ago also used handles very similar to these. Studebaker and Ford used both the "L" and the "T" design on different models in different years.
My '24 T coupe has the "L" pattern like Richard E shows. They had been painted black about 40 years ago, and need to be redone now to look good again. I do have a spare "T" handle that needs repair, but generally good condition. It could be available, maybe a trade? If someone needs one.
I think the "T" style was used on some earlier coupes (1920ish?) and maybe on some two door sedans.

Sorry, I cannot give you good information on what was used exactly when on which cars. I don't know or have that much information on that myself.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Thursday, April 14, 2016 - 09:13 am:

Wayne your comment about the handles being painted years ago on your 24 Coupe made me wonder again if they were painted black at the factory.

When I restored my 24 Coupe a few years ago I was wondering if I should paint the non- metal portion of the handle black or leave it the original color of the bakelite.

I don't think the nickel plated brass ends or the bezel was painted but not sure about the rest.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Thursday, April 14, 2016 - 04:57 pm:

The bezels were plated I think before they were installed onto the handle. The end caps and base ring (on the ones that had a bright base ring, some did not) were plated before the Bakelite was molded and baked on. The color of the Bakelite varied a bit, but was usually a very pleasant looking rust/dark red/brown that was left its natural color.
The handles on my coupe look very nice, but had been painted long before I got the car. Until I get around to it, I won't know how good the Bakelite is until I sand it down or strip it carefully to see if the Bakelite is good enough to leave natural. They can look really nice, well painted, either black or brown/red. But they look really really nice in a good natural Bakelite tone.
The big problem with the Bakelite handles is that Bakelite is an early known form of plastic. And like all plastics, it tends to shrink with age and exposure. That coupled with moisture incursion resulting in rusting of the steel handle base which in turn causes expansion from within results in the Bakelite splitting out and breaking away from the metal handle base.
This could be repaired by setting up, acquiring the proper materials, and recasting the handles into new Bakelite. Most of us will never be able to set up and do that.
The other best option is to cut away the split-out areas, clean up the handle a bit. Then fill the split-out areas with epoxy. I usually use J B Weld. Build it up, shape it, mold it. After adequate setting time, shape it with a file and then sand to shape and smooth. Mask the bright areas and painted well they can look really good.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Sosnoski on Friday, April 15, 2016 - 10:56 am:

The handles shown here are not the correct ones for the 1925 closed cars (with the following caveat). I'm writing this from memory so my timeline may be off a little.

These handles are the "L" shaped handles and were used starting around 1922 or so. The earlier handles looked very similar but were the "T" shaped where both sides of the handle were the same length. These "L" handles were used through the 1924 model year.

There was not a hard transition to the 1925 model year as the model year changes were phased in between August and Dec 1924. Around Sept - Oct 1924 they made the change to the all steel door and the door handles changed right around that time to the nickel plated handles with the black insert. I think there was a short period of time (maybe a month) that the steel doors may have used these earlier handles. The early handles would have been phased out by around the end of Oct. 1924.

For the rest of the 1925 production (Nov 1924 - end of Sept 1925) the handles look similar to the handles used on the 1926-1927 model years. The difference is in the center insert. On the 1925 style the center insert is black nickel plated steel. I believe these carried over into the early 1926 production until they did a redesign of the 1926 cars in March or May 1926 (don't remember which). The handles then changed to using the black rubber insert which was used for the rest of the 1926 model year, all of the 1927 model year, and on the Model A closed cab pickup.

So, if your car has wood framed doors, then the handles shown above are the correct ones.

If you have all steel doors, it should have the nickel plated handles with the steel insert - unless it was built in October 1924 where there is a chance it could have the earlier handles.

The reproduction handles sold by the vendors are the late 1926-1927 style and are close enough that unless you are planning on having the car judged for points nobody is going to know (and even then I doubt if the judges would know the difference).

Relating to the earlier handles above, I have an NOS pair which are perfect. The plastic part is a very dark red-brown color - not black. All of the non-plastic parts including the end caps are nickel plated. And No - they are not for sale.

Dave S.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Eagle Idaho Falls on Friday, April 15, 2016 - 11:59 am:

These may be the 4 types David is talking about. If not please comment.




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Sosnoski on Friday, April 15, 2016 - 12:19 pm:

Yes - those look like the 4 different types. It looks like the one on the far right has the steel center and would be the correct one for 1925. Usually the black nickel plating has partially worn off reveling the steel insert.

Dave S.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Petithomme on Friday, April 15, 2016 - 12:32 pm:

Richard,
Looking at the photo you posted of the door handles, What year was the third one from the left used on? I have two of them and I would like to identify the year or years they were used.Thank you.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Craig Stolpestad on Friday, April 15, 2016 - 04:38 pm:

OK, Here's what I currently have. Black cover is pretty cracked up so looking to replace with new. This is just how it came off the car. Everything painted black; even the nickle end pcs.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Craig Stolpestad on Friday, April 15, 2016 - 04:39 pm:

pics did not upload. just like Dave's second in from the left.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Eagle Idaho Falls on Friday, April 15, 2016 - 04:54 pm:

Bob P., David S. could answer your question. He has studied this subject in depth. I had not considered the change for the steel frame doors but what he said certainly makes sense. If I am understanding correctly, #3 would be '26-'27.
Rich


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Sosnoski on Friday, April 15, 2016 - 06:50 pm:

Ok - I was slightly off in my timeline above.

The black handles were marked "R" for repair only between Sept 2 - 8 1924 (depending on the variation).

The nickel handle with the steel insert was adopted on Aug 8, 1924 and marked for Repair Only on March 17, 1926

The nickel handle with the black insert was adopted on March 17, 1926

So I had it backwards - it is the nickel handle with the steel insert that was used for about a month on the wood framed doors.

If you have wood framed doors - use the black handles - unless your car was built in the month of August 1924 - then use the nickel handle with the steel insert.

If you car has the steel doors, use the nickel handle with the steel insert.

For 1926 - 27 model year - cars built before Mid March 1926 use the steel insert, cars after that use the rubber insert.

I won't get into all the variations in these handles, different manufacturers, changes to the length of the square shaft, having the black nickel as optional or even as white nickel, and on an on.

Bob, the third handle from the left has the black rubber insert so it is the late 26 - 27 and Model A handle.

Dave S.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Sosnoski on Friday, April 15, 2016 - 06:54 pm:

Actually, I still got it wrong.

During the month of August 1924, both the black handles and the Nickel handles with the steel inserts were used.

One more time:

Wood doors - black handles unless built in the month of August 1924 - then either black handles or nickel with steel insert.

Steel Doors - nickel with steel insert.

Hope I got it right this time.

Dave S.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Saturday, April 16, 2016 - 01:16 am:

David S, Not trying to be nit-picky or anything. But by "black handles" you do mean the soft Bakelite/rubber-like dark red/brown with nickel ends like second from viewer's left in Richard E's two photos (the one missing the escutcheon/bezel)? (Ain't English fun?)
My wood-framed door April '24 T coupe does have that style on it , however they were painted black long before I got the car. That is one of the many minor details I keep putting off, fixing the handles to look the way they should. I can see some of the nice original dark red/brown through a few chips in the black paint.

So, Richard E, what handles does your beautiful rusty coupe have on it?
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Saturday, April 16, 2016 - 04:14 am:

Dave Sosnoski, how is the book coming along? I am really looking forward to it. Thanks for all of your time and effort!:-) Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Eagle Idaho Falls on Saturday, April 16, 2016 - 08:49 am:

Hi Wayne. Old "T-Rusty" is a victim of my less than proper choices. The bail handles have always been my favorite and 2 non-matching ones are on it now. However I am pleased to think the T handled Bakelite ones might be proper as I have a couple of them it poor enough condition to be more appropriate.
Thank you and I am driving Carefully.
Rich


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Sosnoski on Sunday, April 17, 2016 - 10:40 am:

Wyane, Yes. The black handles I referred to are the early ones which are actually a dark red-brown color.

David, Still working on the book but progress is very slow. I don't have my part-time, work from home job any more. I now have to go to the office 40 hours a week. Add to that redoing the house with new floors, counters, paint, etc. and we just moved my fiance from her condo into my house. Also just finished the college tours with my daughter (she decided on Bio Chemistry in the Renee Crown Honors Program at Syracuse University).

The research at the level I've been doing takes a long time. Lots of questions crop up. Lately I've been working on the seat cushion wood frame. There are only four pieces of wood which should be simple, but then why is there a part number for the Seat Cushion Frame Bolt, nut and washer when there are no bolt, nuts and washers used in the seat cushion frame? (Answer: it's a mistake - it's actually the Seat Back Frame bolt, nut and washer which was added to the seat back frame in 1925). Whenever a question crops up it requires digging deeper into the archives at the Henry Ford, which also costs money to get Record of Changes or Part Drawings (which don't always exist).

I recently bought another Coupe body just for research. The two I have are what I refer to as Type III (Jan - Aug 1924). This one is a Type I (Aug - Oct? 1923) which is the first variation. These early variations are completely undocumented. I know of some of the differences, but this is the first one of that type I have seen in person. As soon as I make room for it and get hit home I'll go over every detail and see where it differs from my other cars. It's an original body - original upholstery and paint so it is a great study car. Unfortunately it sat in a container with a leak in the roof so all of the wood on the driver's side is rotted. Still - for research poor original condition is better than restored.

Some day the Coupe book will be finished (I hope). Then it's on to the touring and Roadster bodies!!!

Dave S.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Tuesday, April 19, 2016 - 05:10 am:

Thanks Dave! Good thing you don't have too much on your plate!:-). Dave


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