OT: Remember that $13,000 1930 Chevy Engine Overhaul

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: OT: Remember that $13,000 1930 Chevy Engine Overhaul
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ted Dumas on Thursday, April 14, 2016 - 09:08 pm:

For 1930 Chevrolet 6, Kanter Auto Parts has the following listed on their website:


Description Item # Price QTY Select
Deluxe Kit 1929-1931 Chevrolet 6 Cyl - 194
06964B $1357.62

Most Basic Kits Contain:

Complete Overhaul Gasket Set
Pin Fitted Pistons
Piston Ring Set
Rod Bearings
Main Bearings
Cam Bearings
Timing Gears and Chain
Valve Lifters
Valve Locks
Oil Pump Kit
Freeze Plugs
4 oz Bottle of Prelube

Most Master Kits Add:

Rocker Arm Kits
Oil Pump
Cam Shaft

Most Deluxe Kits also Add:

Push Rods
Intake Valves
Exhaust Valves
Valve Guides
Valve Springs
Piston Pin Bushings


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky, Lytle TX on Thursday, April 14, 2016 - 09:55 pm:

That's assuming you have a good engine block.

Before I'd spend $13k for an engine rebuild on a car that will be worth maybe $18K, I'd buy a GM crate engine and build a hot rod to sell and double my money. I'd save my restoration effort$ for a car with better parts. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Schrope - Upland, IN on Thursday, April 14, 2016 - 10:32 pm:

Does anyone know whether a 216 or 235 would bolt up to the bell housing and fit otherwise. They're a dime a dozen. (Well, maybe not that cheap, but very available.) It looks like they should fit, but I haven't done any measuring.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Craig Anderson, central Wisconsin on Friday, April 15, 2016 - 12:05 am:

Your question would probably be better answered at www.chevytalk.com ....... :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Friday, April 15, 2016 - 12:22 am:

Fred, the 235 is a bit longer than the 216--except for the early ones!! I don't know if the 216 is different from the earlier 6s.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Freighter Jim on Friday, April 15, 2016 - 01:14 am:

Ted,

Since you wish to kick a dead horse ...

Why you add the cost of a commercial building,
the years a respected business has been established,
the reputation of such a business, the labor involved .....

Whatever you do for a living I guarantee I can find
a " qualified " person to do your job for 10 cents on the dollar.

I am really sick of folks second guessing the actual cost
of operating a business - particularly when they are not
in that line of business ....

Freighter Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Wolf on Friday, April 15, 2016 - 04:51 am:

Jim;
I think u need to stick to hauling freight.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Friday, April 15, 2016 - 07:06 am:

Yea, i remember that thread,it got deleted shortly after I ask what the labor rate was.

My dads 49 wore out it's 216 and he replaced it with a 235. There is a difference in the front motor mount.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron in Central Massachusetts on Friday, April 15, 2016 - 07:17 am:

What year T do you own Freighter Jim?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James Baker on Friday, April 15, 2016 - 07:36 am:

Jim where do you have your engines rebuilt? What year is your Model T?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron in Central Massachusetts on Friday, April 15, 2016 - 07:45 am:

Freighter Jim, you list "one that runs..." in your profile as the type on Model T you own. What year is it? Rebuilt engine in her?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John T. Tannehill III, Hot Coffee, MS on Friday, April 15, 2016 - 07:58 am:

And now the long knives are revealed. Peace please.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron in Central Massachusetts on Friday, April 15, 2016 - 08:12 am:

No long knives here John, just curious about what kind of Model T Freighter Jim has.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Mazza on Friday, April 15, 2016 - 08:21 am:

How does a rebuild kit include babbit bearings? And I do own a model t in case your wondering, with a j and m built engine. And done on a budget to boot!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James Baker on Friday, April 15, 2016 - 08:32 am:

Good question call Kanter Auto Parts


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Eubanks, Powell, TN on Friday, April 15, 2016 - 08:32 am:

The 6 in question has both babbit mains and rods.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan B on Friday, April 15, 2016 - 08:51 am:

So what's the point? I can buy new Model T rebabbited connecting rods for a fraction of the cost that any engine rebuilder charges.

None of this stuff is bolt on.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Friday, April 15, 2016 - 09:02 am:

I will admit there is no need to all jump on Jim either. He has a point,to a point. It does cost to run a business.I think that is what he is trying to explain.
But as I was taught from the time I was able to understand english, you do not try to earn a living off 1 man. 13,000 is alot of money on a engine.I would expect that on a large diesel perhaps but a little 216 chevy?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ivan Warrington on Friday, April 15, 2016 - 09:20 am:

Looks to me the price is $1,357.62 for the kit. Looks like a good price.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Joseph W. Rudzik on Friday, April 15, 2016 - 09:38 am:

I have bought parts for my '49 Chevy From Patrick's out in Casa Grande, Arizona. The parts for the Chevy and GMC engines are priced close to the parts for the T's and A's. He has the parts to take your engine up in horsepower. I replaced my 216 engine in my truck due to a bad engine build by the previous owner and dropped in a '55 235. With a chevy engine the mount line up, a GMC needs massaging. You will need a short nose water pump with the 235 install to clear the radiator. Parts cross in these trucks from '37 to '62 and makes the job a lot easier. You should be able to rebuild for about $3,500 or so.

Joe R. Independence, MO


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Friday, April 15, 2016 - 10:08 am:

Boy am I glad I was able to rebuild most of my T's bodies and engines myself short of pouring the Babbitt and boring the engines.
You can spend a LOT of money on old cars no matter what kind they are by adding up the rebuild work, shipping, hauling and etc.

If I was a rich guy spending $13,000 would not be a problem. Those folks don't look at the details about cost.
After 50 years of being around old cars I have learned to shop around for parts, machine work and etc. Being a guy that doesn't have a lot of money I had to if I wanted to build my cars.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Vitko on Friday, April 15, 2016 - 11:07 am:

For me half the fun of owning a T is making it run with my knowledge and tools.

This forum supplies the answers I sometimes want for an issue I lack the knowledge to do on my own.

Thanks for all the free information!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kohnke Rebabbitting, Clare, Iowa on Friday, April 15, 2016 - 12:55 pm:

Freighter Jim, has said it all. I have about 250,000.00 in building, and machines, not counting interest all these years.

I know I have used up at least 1 tanker of gas, bringing all the machines home and then taking them all apart to sand blast, and the labor to have scraped and putting in new bearings, and bushings, or boring out wore holes for bushings.

Wore out machines won't do the job.

Ted,if you would have asked, many of your parts there are made in CHINA!

We don't and never have, and never will use anything made in CHINA!

A motor will still run good wore out, and it will normally run after a rebuild by somebody, but there is a big difference in Doctors, and most Guys couldn't look at good, or bad machine work and see the difference.

Herm.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Brumfield on Friday, April 15, 2016 - 02:02 pm:

I lurk on this forum from time to time and have been reading about this job on a Chevy engine and I have a few questions and statements:

Why is a Chevy engine being discussed in such detail on a forum that is supposed to be devoted to Model T’s?

Moreover, why are some people on this forum acting like they're trying to wreck J&M’s business? Did the folks at J&M hold a gun on the customer’s head and say, “Pay us 13 grand, NOW!” … or was the customer allowed to know the total price before the main work was started? Surely the customer was not so dumb as to walk in the shop and say, “Fix it and send me a bill…”

Further, what may seem like a high price to some people may be peanuts to others. Evidently, J&M knows their work is high quality and they have the right as an independent business to charge what they think they’re worth. Others who don’t like it are free to move on.

In closing, I can’t tell you how many posts I’ve read with stories of failed babbitt bearings, bent connecting rods, poor balance work, misalignment of this and that … you name it .. on Ford T’s and A engines. BUT .. they rarely mention the fact that the price was cheap for the so called rebuild. When I read or hear or these problems I almost always think of the following:

The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Friday, April 15, 2016 - 02:06 pm:

How can babbitt bearings be sold separate? Well, the earlier Che**y mains were babbitted shells that still had to be finished once installed in the block. As I recall, I used spun cast bearing rods when I did mine--back then you could just order them! :-) (Yes, it WAS a long time ago!)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ted Dumas on Friday, April 15, 2016 - 03:01 pm:

My point is parts are available. Kanter's kit price may not be correct because when you add up the prices for re-babbited rods, pistons, mains and oil pump it exceeds the kit price.

One would likely have to get the mains line bored, but with a little help from a local auto machine shop, you could do the rest in your home garage.

There's no doubt J&M or Kohnke would do an excellent job if someone wants to go that way.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Friday, April 15, 2016 - 04:05 pm:

The only reason some of us can stay in this hobby is that we do much of the work ourselves--and pay ourselves nothing (Well, in cash; there is a lot of satisfaction in doing something successfully). Others have to hire the work done, and in today's world, that is becoming very expensive, what with employee salaries, insurance, environmental disposal charges, licensing fees, building costs, etc. etc.
I'm glad I'm out of the restoration Biz, the paperwork alone would swamp me! Then the county would come by to make certain I'm not doing anything wrong & I'll bet the property zoning wouldn't be right. . . . . As it is, "they" are trying to make it impossible for hobbyists to paint their own cars; and they're getting pretty close to it, if only by the price of paint!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gustaf in Idaho on Friday, April 15, 2016 - 05:42 pm:

I think one very important fact that many hobbyists forget when they go to a professional is that to stay in business, they can not charge hobbyist labor costs, It is true that many can do much of the work themselves, but if they want hobby prices, they better forget about professional quality and guarantees.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Friday, April 15, 2016 - 08:00 pm:

Does any one have a itemized bill from a engine rebuild that could show in literal black and white what the cost is on a rebuild of any vintage engine just to give a ball park view?

It makes me sick that I call a local re-builder for modern stuff and they will exchange a 350 engine,rebuilt with warranty for 800 cash out the door.
A Ford 400 M, 2300 bucks. Requires the same labor,similar parts, but what the heck the price difference? No body gives me a straight answer when I ask them except," It cost more to do a Ford". WHY? Why is Why so hard to get a answer to?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Friday, April 15, 2016 - 08:04 pm:

I might add that a hobbyist can do a professional job, especially because he is NOT "on the clock" and can spend more time getting things "just right."
And I've seen some professionals do an amateur job too! I remember when a friend showed his Model A at a car show, no one would believe we painted it in his backyard under a carport! (Calm morning, ground well watered to keep dust down, no problems!) And yes, I wore protective clothing and breathing apparatus!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Friday, April 15, 2016 - 09:57 pm:

Folks that do a particular task a long time learn shortcuts, and easy-er ways to do something.
Comes with the territory.
That can work for you or against you. Efficiency can be a good thing. Cost savings for all involved.
Or a short cut and a screw up can cost all involved.Now or later.


A person like myself overhauling a T rear axle does not know the shortcuts. He takes his time and watches the video 14 times and does it carefully.

Paint jobs, a friend had a trophy winning Chevelle and he painted it in the backyard 1 saturday morning. Just watered the dirt down and went to it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Joseph W. Rudzik on Saturday, April 16, 2016 - 01:08 pm:

Go to www.patricksantiquecars.com and add two cylinders to make it a six instead of a four and you will find that the home job cost for the 235 is not that much more than a T or an A engine. My son-in-law manages his dad's car repair shop and says labor is about $60 to $70 bucks an hour so factor how long you work on it.

Joe R. Independence, Mo.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Vitko on Saturday, April 16, 2016 - 02:49 pm:

60. or 70. is a bit low for our area. When I run into tools needed for good repair on my Toyotas I don't have its 90. an hour here. Plumbing, electric, and heating contractors are about the same. Carpenters are about 46. an hour doing insurance work. I am lucky to have good machinists who normally make there living fixing commercial fishing equipment do work for 60. to 70. in the off seasons.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gustaf in Idaho on Saturday, April 16, 2016 - 03:22 pm:

As unskilled entry labor prices are elevated to $15 an hour, expect skilled labor to cost the shop $50 to $75, that means by the time overhead is met, shop time will be well in excess of $100 and approaching $200


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