Hello Model T'ers.
I am trying to estimate how much a Model T will cost to maintain. One question always in the back of my head is transmission band replacement.
How often do they need to be replaced if a T was driven more frequently than a 'weekend' car and less frequently than a 'daily driver' for 8 months of the year? Say, short jaunts daily or every couple of days from March-October?
What is the advantage (or disadvantage) that kevlar bands has over other bands? (Wooden, others??)
If you change them yourself, it probably cost more to keep the oil changed for the miles you seem to plan on driving.
The non-sarcastic answer is that put in right and driven right you will forget the last time you changed bands by the time they need replacement...regardless of band material.
I'm an equal opportunity user...3 cars...all three types. I think my personal preference could be called wood...but that is not fair as they are in the '15 and that requires a hogshead off change which to me is guaranteed to keep the steel hoops round in the first place!
the '19 has Scandanavia and until they slip with no more adjustment or look razor thin at the ends...I'm fine with them too...because I know they went in round without drastic tugs to get them in.
the '26 has Kevlar and that comes under the heading of doing it right and doing it round...and to me that's leaving them almost laughingly loose the first time you crank it up....then bring it in a turn at a time until it does what you want and no more...
As to the pro's and cons of Kevlar? Kevlar has maybe an 8% better coefficient of friction going for it in theory...Kevlar has resistance to rub wear several times greater than even old Scandanavia...Kevlar has the INABILITY to wick away heat so if you feather the clutch or ignore pumping your brakes on stopping or slowing...then weird things have been reported to happen. An 8% coefficient of friction increase means same total heat of stopping generated 8% faster
The other 2 kinds are almost bulletproof, again, round hoops and you'll forget the last time they were changed...eggy hoops and/or poor driving habits? NOTHING is that bullet proof other than a synchro mesh sliding tranny...
Wood can chatter and so far no one really knows why. I have my own view as to what causes chatter but most folks don't like to hear it...it is only coincidence that the wood I have done for mine and the wood done for others has never chattered.
I'm told but have no experience that modern Scandanavia is no better than a woven boy scout belt without any wear characteristics. I don't know, I somehow have accumulated a lifetime supply and don't plan on any changes soon either
Others opinions will vary........
p.s. Hey Harold, that was consciously done with the least words I know how to possibly use...ha ha
Ha ha,....gotcha' George! I hope you didn't take anything I said in our previous discussion as "criticism", because it certainly was not meant to criticize. I always enjoy (and learn) from your posts, and this one was a good example of that. In fact, I can add a bit to what you just said George, some from my limited "experience" and some, admittedly, a bit of "personal opinion":
First, I have to say, of all that I've read in past years on this forum, your explanation of the negative aspect of Kevlar is the first I can ever recall that explains the heat thing, and in terms that even I can understand,.......""Kevlar has the INABILITY to wick away heat." So that is obviously why Kevlar can and will damage drums if improperly installed (out-of-round bands), improperly adjusted (too tight) or abused by poor driving habits (slipping low band too much, or failing to "pump" brake band).
Second, and this is the "admittedly opinion" part, I think wood bands are absolutely the best choice, because they sure have been a success for me! However, I honestly believe that I am easy on bands, and I also believe that THAT is the secret with wood bands. If they are abused in any way that causes too much heat, they will be burned to the degree of "charring" which is what I believe causes "chatter". Again, I am easy on bands, and mine do not ever chatter! I know of a case where a fellow believes (and I think he's right) that his wood bands chatter, simply because as a new and inexperienced driver, he abused the bands initially and burned them, which has caused them to "chatter" ever since.
Anyway, Ryan, you asked about bands, and I believe that George gave you (us) some great information to help you make a decision ref band material.
Again, my "opinion",.....if you think you can drive carefully enough to be easy on bands right from the "get-go" without abusing them, I'd go with wood. If you think it might take you some time to develop proper driving habits with regard to being easy on bands, I'd go with the original cotton (original Scandinavia brand) as they are the easiest on drums, even if abused. The important thing here is to get the original Scandinavia brand but NOT the newer cotton type. Do a bit of research and maybe some help from one of the more experienced "T" guys. Those guys are around an would be glad to advise you and the old high quality Scandinavia band material is still around too, but you might need some help to find it. FWIW,.....harold
P.S. Well, what can I say George,.....my usual "epistle" but,.....well,.....it just "happens", right?
I firmly believe that a properly restored Model T has annual maintenance costs equal to or less than a modern car. My biggest expenses in using my Model Ts a few thousand miles each year, seem to be gas, oil, and ice cream.
For example, the '23 Runabout has been in service for about ten years, averaging 600-800 miles of use each year. Since the restoration was completed, I have replaced the coil points, the cotton bands, and the craptacular repop oil funnel that I installed when I initially built the engine. Replacing the repop oil funnel that failed did cost an engine gasket set as part of the repair. My '14 has incurred more expenses over the same period, but it's driven a lot more. It's also a car that has never had a complete restoration, so some of the repairs have been items that have worn out over 100 years of faithful service.