Installing sleeves in axle housing

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: Installing sleeves in axle housing
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Warren- Huntington, VT on Sunday, April 17, 2016 - 09:08 pm:

Is there a right or a wrong way to install the new sleeves? I bought new sleeves from Langs (2 for the left and 2 for the right). I installed the inner sleeve on the left axle and I'm not sure it's right. I slid it down until the little dimple on the top edge settled into the dimple in the housing. It is seated all the way down and appears to be in all the way. Does it matter which way the "V" groove points? Should it point with the forward rotation of the wheel? Does this make sense? The sleeves look almost exactly the same between the left and right sides but there must be a difference.

Also, I replaced the pins in the housing and on the differential cases. The pins in the axle housings are fully seated but due to some wear they stick up a tiny bit(Maybe a thousandth). Will this be an issue?
Thanks


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Longbranch,WA on Sunday, April 17, 2016 - 10:43 pm:

Yes, the "V" should point towards forward momentum - just check to make sure the hole drilled for lubrication aligns with the hole in the axle housing grease cup.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Sunday, April 17, 2016 - 10:52 pm:

The pins should not stick out farther than the steel washer. Otherwise the pins will wear out the bronze washer. If you go to the outer end of the axle, the sleeve should fit in such a way the the dimple seats in the hole and the grease hole is in alignment with the grease cup. The inner bearing on the opposite side will be the same position. In other words there is a left sleeve and a right sleeve. You can tell which one is which by the position of the grease fitting. The inner sleeve is opposite the outer sleeve. I know what I am trying to say, but might be confusing to the reader Each half of the axle housing has a right and a left sleeve.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Monday, April 18, 2016 - 10:24 am:

Looking at each housing from the rear. They each have a left and right end. The left sleeve goes in the left end and the right goes in the right end.
The pins are not hardened, just take a file and take a little off the top, a pin buzz cut. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rick Goelz-Knoxville,TN on Monday, April 18, 2016 - 07:24 pm:

Take the grease fitting out and stick a small phillips screwdriver in the hole it should go all the way into the bearing if it inly goes in a little the sleeves are in the wrong axle, the dimple should also be in place.

Rick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tony Bowker, Ramona, CA on Monday, April 18, 2016 - 08:09 pm:

There are two sleeves in each axle half, one left and one right. One is in the center and one near the wheel. There are two considerations in fitting sleeves:
1 the slot should end up at the bottom
2 the dimple should go into the hole.
Remembering these two common sense rules eliminates all this left and right nonsense.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Warren- Huntington, VT on Monday, April 18, 2016 - 10:21 pm:

Thanks for clearing this up for me. Somehow I thought that two were for the left side and two were for the right side. Once I started putting them in, it just didn't look right. It makes sense that each half has a right and a left. I only put the inner ones in so far, so it should be a really easy fix.

As far as the pins go, it's not the top of the pin that sticks out, its the shoulder of the pin that sticks up a tiny bit from the housing. It's almost like the pin isn't seated all the way in, but it actually is...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Mottashed on Tuesday, April 19, 2016 - 01:17 am:

Tony is correct but if you insist on the left/right thing you will find that the left housing takes two left sleeves. Picture it like this. You're standing behind the left housing with the left sleeve positioned to insert in the outer end. The orientation is obvious with the slot at the bottom and the grease hole lined up, and the dimple at the outer end of the sleeve. Now grab that sleeve from above with your right hand and move it to the inner end while spinning it end for end from above. This works because the hole for the dimple is on opposite sides of the housing for inner vs outer. If you used a right sleeve on the inner end of the left housing the slot would be at the top for this reason.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Tuesday, April 19, 2016 - 01:57 am:

I don't think having the slot at the top at the inner end of the left housing would be so wrong, considering the force from the pinion pushing the ring gear downwards - and the force on the bearing from the axle could also be downwards, since the outer bearing takes the upward forces from the weight of the car, but since the wheel is a couple of inches outwards of the outer bearing, there's a bending introduced into the axle shaft that actually can result in a downwards force at the inner bearing, depending on how tight the axles are in the differential.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Warren- Huntington, VT on Sunday, May 01, 2016 - 04:57 pm:

I still haven't put the rear end back together yet. I've been busy around the house and don't want to rush this and get it put back together wrong. Here is a picture of the pins that I installed. They are completely seated but due to some wear on the axle housing, they now stick up a bit. What should I do? Just install the thrust washer like this or should I try to "peen" down the outer edge to make it flush with the housing?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Warren- Huntington, VT on Sunday, May 01, 2016 - 05:00 pm:

I still haven't put the rear end back together yet. I've been busy around the house and don't want to rush this and get it put back together wrong. Here is a picture of the pins that I installed. They are completely seated but due to some wear on the axle housing, they now stick up a bit. What should I do? Just install the thrust washer like this or should I try to "peen" down the outer edge to make it flush with the housing?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Sunday, May 01, 2016 - 06:29 pm:

Might be OK as is or a bit of file work around that pin. What counts is that the steel washer must be flat flush and square to the housing surface. If the steel washer isn't flat to the surface the bronze thrust will be dragging on the hi spot.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Longbranch,WA on Sunday, May 01, 2016 - 08:13 pm:

Did you attempt to "seat" the pin using the steel thrust washer & brass hammer ? That pin is standing mighty proud of the housing surface to be from "wear".


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Warren- Huntington, VT on Sunday, May 01, 2016 - 09:45 pm:

I heated the housing and put the pin in the freezer prior to installing. The pin went in pretty easily and as I was tapping it in, I could feel a distinct difference once the pin was seated. I'll try to see if I can get a small file onto it and file it down a bit.

Other than the pins, the rear end is just about ready to go back together. I just have to do a bit of sanding and prime it before I put it together for a test fit. Once I know that I have everything the way I want it, I'll put it together and paint it all as one unit. So far I have replaced: the pins, bronze washers, axle sleeves, I bought a new drive shaft because the other one was too worn, I bought the fun project pinion kit, I replaced the pinion gear and ring gear, replaced the driveshaft bushing, and have a new u-joint. The only parts I haven't replaced are the bearings (they measured great) and the axles (they measured good too). Just need to make sure that I get everything put back together correctly. I have the videos on the rear end so I should be able to get it back to perfect running condition.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Monday, May 02, 2016 - 02:01 pm:

Michael

After working over the pin, check fit of steel washer to be sure the smaller dia. of the pin doesn't protrude above the steel washer or it will be gouged or rocked out by the rotating bronze thrust washer.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Warren- Huntington, VT on Monday, May 02, 2016 - 10:15 pm:

Made good progress on the rear end tonight. Was able to get the pins taken care of by peening the edge down. The washers fit nice and flat on the housing with no pin protruding up at all.

I got the rear end "dry fit" together and it seems just a bit snug but with the gasket in between the cases it should be just right.

I got the driveshaft put together part way but realized that I don't have a big enough socket for my torque wrench to fit the nut on the pinion gear. I also noticed that the front hole for the pin that hold on the U-joint doesn't quite line up with the hole...Any ideas? I am using the Fun projects rear pinion bearing assembly. Here is a pic so you can see what I mean.

Mike


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Monday, May 02, 2016 - 10:34 pm:

Typical with repro parts.

1. That new drive shaft may have rivet hole in wrong place, mine did.
2. The new bronze bushing in the torque tube needs to be faced where the oil groove is about gone to prevent the U-joint from impinging, that allows the U-joint to slide back some more.
3. On one install with new repro U-joint plus new driveshaft had to grind away some of the U-joint flange as that flange is thicker than original part. Then the U-joint slipped back with enough gap to not drag on the bushing face but to allow the rivet holes to line up.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Warren- Huntington, VT on Tuesday, May 03, 2016 - 07:14 am:

Thanks Dan! I'll take a look at the hole to make sure it's in the right spot. If it is, I'll face the bronze bushing to allow for the u-joint to slide back a bit more.

I was hoping that these new parts were going to make my life easier, not harder... Oh, well. All part of the rebuild process I suppose.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Warren- Huntington, VT on Tuesday, May 03, 2016 - 07:30 pm:

Dan,

Well, I checked the driveshaft and the hole is drilled 3/16 of an inch further back than the original one... Did you return the one you had and get another one? Was the second one drilled correctly? I was thinking, what if I turned the shaft 90 degrees and drilled a new hole in the opposite direction? I know that the two holes would intersect but it should still be okay right? I have a friend with a machine shop that could drill the hole for me so it would be perfect. Or, should I just return it to Lang's and get a new one?

Also, looks like I am going to have to shave off some of the u-joint to make that fit perfectly too...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Tuesday, May 03, 2016 - 08:09 pm:

Michael

Think all the new driveshafts are just made not to print. So you can return it, but I would call Lang's first and give them the measurement so they can check supply stock.

My fix was to shave off the new repro U-joint flange, that made it fit. I had already trimmed the bronze bushing, that needs to be done with any install of the Fun Projects pinion bearing.


New shaft on left!


New bronze bushing trimmed.


Ford U-joint


Repro U-joint with fat flange


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Warren- Huntington, VT on Tuesday, May 03, 2016 - 10:05 pm:

Thanks Dan for the pics.

I have already installed the bronze bushing and I'm afraid if I try to take it out to shave it off a bit I may end up destroying it...I may just try to shave off the u-joint and see if that gives me enough clearance to make it all work smoothly. I'll let you know how I make out.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rolf Oehman on Wednesday, May 04, 2016 - 06:51 am:

It`s really annoying that the people that makes the repro drive shafts, canīt do it right. Why not take a look at an original shaft , and drill the damn hole in the right place? Would`nt cost a dime to do it right. I had the same headache when I rebuilt my rear axle a couple of years ago. The same goes for the driveshaft bushing. What`s the benefit of a oil grooves in the flange when it has to be turned down to nothing ?
Yes, I know. Iīm grumpy . :-(


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Warren- Huntington, VT on Saturday, May 07, 2016 - 10:04 pm:

Ok, so more drama with my driveshaft...This is beginning to drive me nuts... I shaved off about .010 off the new u-joint and about .010 off the bronze bushing to make sure that they would fit together. They seem to line up ok and now I can get the pin in the u-joint ok. There is probably a small amount of space between the u-joint and the brass bushing. Is it okay that they are not touching each other?

So, I went to put the Fun Projects pinion bearing on the driveshaft and for some reason the locking collar bolt is rubbing on the inside of the driveshaft tube as it rotates... I have emailed John and am waiting for a response. Anyone ever have this happen? I am very pleased with the FP pinion bearing, just not sure if I am doing something wrong...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Noonan - Norton, MA. on Saturday, May 07, 2016 - 10:54 pm:

Michael, it is very common for the collar to rub at some points, it did on mine also. Just take a small die grinder and relieve the portions it grinds against, and you should be good to go.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Saturday, May 07, 2016 - 11:22 pm:

Just grind away the suspect areas in the torque tube. John doesn't like it but I have had to also grind a bit more angle on the already ground Allen head set-screw that is supplied, it has a taper ground end, but that still sticks up in my applications.

Maybe others don't object, but that thing scrapes for me unless I grind it a tad more.


Weld junk inside the torque tube.


Cleanup with grinding stone.


Still made contact, when tested later with Prussian Blue, with torque tube fastened up square to the pinion housing case.





Grind off a little more, and good now.



Be sure final test rotations are done with the torque tube bolted to the pinion housing, so all are in alignment, knowing the drive shaft is centered, and then turn the shaft with the U-Joint to be sure no rubbing or contact of the fastened collar.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Noonan - Norton, MA. on Saturday, May 07, 2016 - 11:42 pm:

Dan, i had to do exactly what you did as far as grinding down the head a tad. I didn't like the idea, but that was the only way it wouldn't rub..I was still able to use the Allen wrench to tighten it securely, so far, so good. Also used red Loctite for a little extra protection.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Saturday, May 07, 2016 - 11:50 pm:

John

Yep. Used Locktite too.

This other install found a different head Allen screw, seemed better fit under the collar shoulder.


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