Comparisons between 2 early 14 tourings. Its a numbers game

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: Comparisons between 2 early 14 tourings. Its a numbers game
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill in Adelaida Calif on Tuesday, April 19, 2016 - 12:15 am:

Mark Chaffins post about his early 14 T made me dig up some numbers on mine to compare with his.

My engine cast date 10.24.13 Marks engine cast date 10.04.13 Twenty days apart.
Now it gets interesting. My engine serial number 361466. His engine serial number 372083
My body number 614789742 His body number 614188734.

Like Marks car, mine too has a 2 piece drive shaft housing. Unlike Marks barn find I do NOT know the history from new. The nephew of the second owner referred to the car as a "16" as that is the year the second owner bought it. It has been in Paso Robles at least since 1916 and probably since new. My uncle purchased the car from the estate of the second owner in the early '50s and restored it. I am the 4th owner.
What I find interesting is that my engine was cast after Marks, but assembled before Marks car. Conversely his car body number is much lower than mine. I would love to know where his car was assembled and where my car was assembled. I am guessing that one car may have been assembled in San Francisco and the other in Los Angeles.
Are there any other early 14's out there with engine or body numbers in the range of these two?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Rodell, Sr.- Wisconsin on Tuesday, April 19, 2016 - 12:33 am:

Bill, What is the CAR # on the brass patent plate on your dash board? Mark's CAR # is 361342.
Is your body also a Beaudette body, with a big "B" embossed into one or both of the seat heel panels?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Everett on Tuesday, April 19, 2016 - 12:36 am:

My '14 engine was cast on 10-14-13, s/n 378279.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill in Adelaida Calif on Tuesday, April 19, 2016 - 01:10 am:

I didn't post my car number as it looks like a reproduction plate and its the same number as the engine. It is a beaudette body


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Justin in Katy Texas on Tuesday, April 19, 2016 - 09:25 am:

My car is engine cast date 8-29-13 but the transmission shaft is 10-29-13

That would make it a '14 but interestingly enough the body is a '13 Fisher (sp)

Its a Canadian RHD with number C5383 and I chatted with a fundi and he said he'd seen two other early 14's with 13 bodies. He believe it was the Canadians using up their old stock... Could be I guess/hope.

Just a conundrum. It why I alternate between calling mine a 14 or a 13. I tend to go with 13 because visually its more 13 that anything else... I will get round to sorting out the earlier windshield etc.. :-) just an interesting date/body story close to the two Bill's and Mark's...

No body number could be found in any of the usual places either.. And no dark blue either. Dark green yes...

Keep well,
Justin


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Philippe BROST, France on Tuesday, April 19, 2016 - 06:18 pm:

My engine 374 491 was cast 10 2 1913. It is a UK assembled touring with RHD. I could not find any body number.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Parker on Tuesday, April 19, 2016 - 07:03 pm:

Justin,

Y'all still swimming out in Katy. I'm in Spring Branch/Memorial area.

My block was cast 6-19-13 and made into an engine 7-17-13. The transmission stub shaft is dated 7-11-13. The stub shaft can give a "not sooner than" date. Mine is a 1914 style touring.

Do all of y'all have the two piece drive shaft, pipe plug engine and smooth rear cross member?

Ken in Texas

(Message edited by drkbp on April 19, 2016)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Justin in Katy Texas on Tuesday, April 19, 2016 - 07:27 pm:

Hi Ken

You're in Texas. Well Muffy will be arriving the first week of June. Hope we can go cruising...

I've got the two piece driveshaft, pipe plug engine but I'll have to look for this smooth rear crossmember.

Good to hear from you again. Small world

Justin


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Tuesday, April 19, 2016 - 07:31 pm:

Justin, How much dark green and where? Officially, green was not used in '13 by Ford, certainly not since the end of even the '11 model year. Although Canadian cars could be different. Unofficially, there are a handful of '13 Ford touring cars with maybe credible claims to having been green originally. I say that, because I have talked to people that were familiar with the cars before restoration, but I have never been in a position of climbing all over them and looking under the upholstery myself. And I have never had the opportunity to look such a car over before restoration.
I even know of one '13 touring restored by a well-known hobbyist back about 1960 that he swore was originally red. Other people I knew had opportunities to look under the upholstery and also said the red looked original. Again, "officially", no cars were painted red at that time. Maybe there were some exceptions. Maybe fleet orders? And of course there were auto painting shops that would repaint a new car any color you wanted. Maybe they even removed the upholstery first?
Officially, blue was discontinued before the switch in '13 to the '14 style body. Numerous '13 style bodies have been claimed as clearly being black originally (which would support that official claim). Yet several credible claims have been made for late-'13-build/early-'14-style touring cars. A few of these I have seen, but again, not well enough for me to fully stand behind the owner's claim. I do have an unrestored original '14 style door that has extremely old paint that appears to be blue, including in places usually not covered in repaints. What does it mean? Really not much. Mostly more questions than answers.
Even though "officially", all cars had been black since sometime in 1913, there has been evidence of enclosed cars being dark blue (and some claim green) until as late as maybe 1918. And there was some official correspondence concerning "blue" touch-up paint about 1917 to support the possibility of blue cars later than the official record says.
Also, under the for whatever it is worth file, the early 1916 center-door I used to have (which did appear to be a real one), showed no sign of any color other than black. And it I did crawl all over inside with most of the upholstery removed. However, it was generally not a good candidate for confirming original details because it had suffered a bad restoration in the late '50s.
Anyway, since this thread covers part of that transitional time, and the color question came up, I just thought I should throw that all out there. Or maybe I should have just thrown it out.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith, Lomita, California on Wednesday, April 20, 2016 - 10:26 am:

I don't think there is a lot of consistency in the manufacturing of Ford cars. Just this past week I noted a '13 touring with a serial number plate on the firewall that is only around 600 cars after mine. My car has the big serial number plate, with the winged script, and his had the small more common plate, which is definitely original.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Justin in Katy Texas on Thursday, April 21, 2016 - 09:46 am:

Hi Wayne

I noted it when re-covering the interior of my doors, and the section just forward of the front doors.

I also looked at the rear of the car, in the corners where the rear seat meets the rear door. Some brackets and bolts there that I removed partially to look under etc.

Obviously my car has been repainted, and I was toying with the idea of bringing back to original. At that time I was talking with Russ Furstnow and was going to go back to navy blue, but after finding the greener evidence, and not being a fan of that, I stayed with the colour the car has been since my Granddad restored it in the early 60's.

Now when the car gets here in June, I'm going to take the body off properly this time, and do a more thorough restoration (don't tell my wife) and when I do that, I'll post pics and make parts available for anyone to investigate etc.

Can't find it now, but weren't there pictures posted of cars arriving in shipping boxes dismantled and primed for paint later?

If I could just find the original info of the car when it left the factory in Canada, I think I'd put to rest a lot more questions.

Thanks
Justin


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