Are Scandinavian band linings obsolete?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: Are Scandinavian band linings obsolete?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By JohnH on Tuesday, April 19, 2016 - 07:49 pm:

I was surprised to see the absence of Scandinavian linings in the latest Snyders catalog. Contacting them revealed that there will be no more after present stock is exhausted.

Is that the end of Scandinavians and I need to hoard what ones are left? Or are other suppliers continuing to supply them? Did Cantex stop making them?
I'm aware of alternative materials but prefer cotton linings for my car.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Longbranch,WA on Tuesday, April 19, 2016 - 08:29 pm:

The modern Scandinavia's are/were not the same tight weave pattern as original or the Cantex linings from the seventies & eighties and subsequently didn't seem to perform as well !


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Pawelek Brookshire, Texas on Tuesday, April 19, 2016 - 08:48 pm:

From my collection.
Notice the difference in weave between some originals and those made later on.....
two scandies


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Pawelek Brookshire, Texas on Tuesday, April 19, 2016 - 08:48 pm:

From my collection.
Notice the difference in weave between some originals and those made later on.....
two scandies


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Tuesday, April 19, 2016 - 08:48 pm:

what the same heck are we supposed to use?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Tuesday, April 19, 2016 - 09:37 pm:

Wood. Wood. Wood. That it what you should use.

I have had Scandinavian, Kevlar, and now wood.
The wood has been the best by far.
I was skeptical about the wood but they seem to be very good.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George n Los Angeles CA on Tuesday, April 19, 2016 - 09:49 pm:

I'll be converting to wood this winter


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By JohnH on Tuesday, April 19, 2016 - 10:04 pm:

The darker ones on the right is what I have been using and typically get about 8 years out of them.
Quite happy with that, even if they are meant to be the not so good ones.

(Message edited by 26tourer on April 19, 2016)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Zibell, Huntsville, AL on Tuesday, April 19, 2016 - 10:25 pm:

There are also the Kevlar linings. If you have detachable ears, you don't need to pull the hogs head to install.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Noonan - Norton, MA. on Tuesday, April 19, 2016 - 11:05 pm:

When i first bought my T it had cotton bands, the clumps of lint were everywhere, including wrapped around everything and anything that it could possibly attach itself to. I went to Kevlar because i understand that the trick to preserving your drums, is to properly adjust and engage them properly. If you know how to do this, you will be perfectly fine, if not...you will probably advocate for something else, like wood.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George Mills_Cherry Hill NJ on Tuesday, April 19, 2016 - 11:30 pm:

What everybody has failed to even mention is that on the original Scandanvia, the way back pre-72 or so stuff...the binder for the cotton twill was...asbestos!

Now you know why it went bye bye...

Most of the substitute technology installed in the 70's was horrible and very short lived. (Strap brakes were very, very common on industrial machinery right up until the asbestos type went bye bye...new machine designs since are with rotors and calipers with flat pads).

I think what John is saying is that even the goo-goo dark impregnated weaves of the 80's onward are no longer available in Mac's catalog? What did EPA strike this time? The goo?

I think part of the problem today is that pretty much all of the woven linings used for industrial braking are made/loomed in China...and while those manufacturers can and do produce certified asbestos free by formulation...the manufacturing line in the same bay does also produce asbestos based woven straps because asbestos impregnation is STILL the best technical solution...and well there is this thing called 'dust'.

If indeed 'plain' are now verbotten in USA..then the other two choices work fine and the natural default should be wood as you do need to know what you are doing for Kevlar and many/most won't.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Wednesday, April 20, 2016 - 09:43 am:

The original Scandanavia bands, Montgomery Wards brand, Allstate and a few other older original cotton bands had one thing in common.

They all had a very tight and close weave. The newer Cantex Scandanavia linings weren't woven as tightly or as close.

Given that and what George M. stated about the added asbestos made the Scandanavia linings pretty good for what they were.

I believe I read a while back on the forum that the equipment used to get the really close and tight weave was sold and discarded.

If you close closely at Kevlar bands you can tell that they don't have the tight weave like the old Scandanavia bands.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Wednesday, April 20, 2016 - 11:54 am:

John - I didn't have any problems with the Kevlar bands - I just think that the wood ones feel better.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ted Dumas on Wednesday, April 20, 2016 - 06:06 pm:

I question whether asbestos was ever used in Scandanavia band lining. I saw no sign of it when I trimmed the lining ends over the past 60 years. I do not doubt it was used in most brake linings and to good advantage.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Zibell, Huntsville, AL on Wednesday, April 20, 2016 - 10:16 pm:

Fred, I just don't want to pull the hogs head to change bands. I'm sure wood works well, it is that I'm getting good performance with Kevlar bands. They do have a gap at the bottom so they get more oil.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By M G Hillhouse on Wednesday, April 20, 2016 - 10:41 pm:

If I can contribute some knowledge to this thread. Scandinavia bans were always 100% cotton. The major problem with them over the years is the shrinking quality of long fiber cotton. The shorter the fiber the less tension you can apply during the weaving process. So the weave isn't as tight. I worked for Raybestos in the early 80's and at that time the only asbestos fibers worth weaving came from Madagascar which was being embargo'd. My father spent 30 years researching a substitute for asbestos. After 17 patents with Goodyear and Raybestos Kevlar was the closest substitute and even then nowhere close. It's funny now those research results are exactly what we have problems with today on our cars. Heat buildup aggressive engagement and higher wear of mating surfaces. The looms used for lining material are made in England as they have been for over 100 years. We bought two when my dad started Texas Friction Company. They made woven linings for the oil patch. Kevlar is woven looser than asbestos in an effort to provide better cooling so the fibers don't fuse and degrade. I am a little more progressive than he was. His words to me were cotton linings were what the T was designed for. Anything more aggressive will result in other consequences. With the degradation of quality cotton linings we are all forced to adapt other Friction materials. Obviously driving the car correctly with properly adjusted bands is paramount to reliable operation. I don't believe either wood or Kevlar can be called better than each other, choose one or the other and drive safely! MG


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Wednesday, April 20, 2016 - 10:50 pm:

Wow,I had no idea folks didn't use the Scandinvia linings anymore. sure is news to me.
I guess I need to make some calls and at least get 1 set or 2 before they are all gone. I am almost 50 years old so i shouldn't need but 1 or 2 more sets before I can't drive anyhow.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By JohnH on Thursday, April 21, 2016 - 01:57 am:

I was able to get some sets of 26/27 Scandinavians just in time, though had to look further than my usual supplier to get them. Pre 26 owners are in a better position at the moment, though now is the time to stock up if you like using them.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peter Kable - Kiama NSW OZ on Thursday, April 21, 2016 - 02:40 am:

JohnH, Any so called Scandinavian bands you may get now are probably going to be the poor replaced quality that came out in the 1970's when the original company was bought out and the band design/material was changed.

It was at this time that complaints started and Model T members went looking for alternatives, resulting in the now available Kevlar and wood band businesses.

I remember quite vividly the many discussions printed in the Vintage Ford over many months about the band quality at that time, starting with the usual denials then the admitting they had changed the process up until most owners went elsewhere.

Unfortunately the same packaging is used for the bad bands as was used originally so its hard to tell.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Thursday, April 21, 2016 - 09:31 am:

This discussion reminds me of the ones concerning timers over the years.

Those probably had an influence in reproducing the New Day timer again with good materials.

Maybe someone will make Scandinavia or cotton bands the right way as the originals.

Yes I know that Kevlar lasts longer ( I have a set in one of my T's).

I learned a long time ago to never say never and this is true even in the Model T hobby!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Saylor, Citrus Heights, Ca on Thursday, April 21, 2016 - 10:46 am:

If you have Scandinavia that you like you might be wise to only use them on the low band and put Kevlar on the reverse and brake, saving the unused Scandinavian for future use on the low band.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Aldrich Orting Wa on Thursday, April 21, 2016 - 12:16 pm:

I was told that Kevlar "feel" like Scandinavia but last like wood.

Not true? Opinions?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Glen Chaffin on Thursday, April 21, 2016 - 01:45 pm:

There is no truth to the rumor. Scandinavia linings are still available. I just talked with Joe Goodreau, owner of Industrial Linings who is the source for Sacndinavian linings. He is still getting the lining from England and has no intentions of going out of business.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Thursday, April 21, 2016 - 02:08 pm:

That's good news to hear.
Thanks for finding out from the owner.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By JohnH on Thursday, April 21, 2016 - 08:19 pm:

Thanks Glen for that info. I guess it pays not to fall into the routine of only looking to one supplier when buying T parts.
Those later linings that Peter mentions are the ones I've been using since the Mark Automotive ones became unavailable back around 2002. Maybe it's just the way I drive but I've actually found them to be long lived with 6-8 years use out of them.
Yet, I've seen others wear them out in a few drives.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Thursday, April 21, 2016 - 09:50 pm:

I know it is a pain in the butt but I would rather change bands a time or 2 instead of drums!
From what I understand driving with kevlar incorrectly can result in drum damage which is even more of a pain in the ----- so I will probably stick with what I am using.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ed in California on Thursday, April 21, 2016 - 09:52 pm:

I have a stock of originals someplace, not the "tar baby" ones made later


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Wolf on Thursday, April 21, 2016 - 10:01 pm:

Yrs. ago, I bought a lot of different brands of band lining, when they were on ebay. Still got them.
Put a set in my '14 yrs ago and they r still going strong.


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