Starter Bendix Issue

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: Starter Bendix Issue
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Daniel E. Snell on Sunday, April 24, 2016 - 02:23 pm:

My Starter was not turning over the engine despite having replaced the battery. All the cables and connections are near new and good including the switch. I then decided to remove the bendix off the end of the starter shaft while still leaving starter motor mounted. I then hit the starter switch and the starter spins over good. How can I tell if the bendix is bad or not operating properly? Nothing seems broken. I do not want to have to pull the starter motor out and rebuild it, as it was rebuilt already less than 300 miles ago and since it spins over, it seems good. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Sunday, April 24, 2016 - 02:58 pm:

The one thing that throws everybody is the half moon key that fits in the shaft. Is it there/in place or did it shear off clean?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Sunday, April 24, 2016 - 03:37 pm:

What Charlie said. If the starter spins but does not turn over the motor, something is wrong with the bendix. However, if it does not spin when you hit the switch but does spin when you remove the bendix, it could indicate a very tight engine. How does it turn with the hand crank? If it turns easily with the crank, the problem would not be a tight engine. A low battery, even a newly replaced one could be low and could cause the problem. A poor ground connection either at the battery or where the cable is attached to the frame could cause it, or a poor ground at the starter itself. In the case of a poor ground at the starter, a short ground cable from one of bolts where the starter is attached to the hogshead to the chassis could fix that problem. Also a modern cable made for 12 volt used with a 6 volt battery could cause a drain. Another problem could be a high speed clutch stuck. Try jacking up one back wheel and leave the parking brake in the neutral or high position. If the starter turns the engine, your high gear clutch is stuck. Last, but very often, the starter itself needs to be rebuilt.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Daniel E. Snell on Sunday, April 24, 2016 - 03:39 pm:

Charlie, it is there and appears to be undamaged. I cannot figure out why this starter will not turn the engine over. It barely engages and struggles to get past each and every upstroke on the pistons. Now with the bendix removed, it spins freely, what do you think the problem is?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Daniel E. Snell on Sunday, April 24, 2016 - 03:47 pm:

Norman, I have another model T so I removed the battery from it which was spinning the motor and starting up perfectly and put it in the one with the problem. I also have a trickle charger on the new battery so I do not believe it to be a battery problem. Is it possible that even though the starter motor spins freely without the bendix attached, that it is somehow too weak to turn over the motor? The engine is newly rebuilt but does have over 200 miles on it. It has always been hard to turn over with this starter motor but is now gotten to the point of not turning over hardly at all,


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Seth - Ohio on Sunday, April 24, 2016 - 03:53 pm:

Is the car stuck in gear? Can you push the car?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stephen D Heatherly on Sunday, April 24, 2016 - 04:31 pm:

Could it be that your bands are too tight or that the high speed clutch is not fully disengaged? How hard is it to turn the engine over with the crank? It could also be that your battery cable connections are not clean and tight or that the switch is no good.

Stephen


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Daniel E. Snell on Sunday, April 24, 2016 - 05:20 pm:

The car will start with the crank, so it is not stuck in gear. It is a bit tough to crank but does start that way. How can I tell if the bands are too tight or that the clutch is not fully disengaged? I know they put in wooden bands on this rebuild.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stephen D Heatherly on Sunday, April 24, 2016 - 05:36 pm:

When you push the pedals down firmly they should stop about 1 inch above the floor. If the pedals stop way above the floor then the bands are too tight. To see if the clutch is fully disengaging remove the little cover door on the transmission and see if the little fingers that apply pressure to the clutch discs can be moved back and forth when the brake lever is in neutral. If they cannot be moved then the clutch is not disengaged enough.

Stephen


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ross Harris on Sunday, April 24, 2016 - 05:48 pm:

Hey Daniel why not try the starter off the other car


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Daniel E. Snell on Sunday, April 24, 2016 - 05:55 pm:

Ross, I have a rebuilt starter that I can certainly switch out to if that is really the problem, just hoping someone could help me diagnose the problem, what with the starter spinning it seems it may not be the starter motor and I hate to switch it out without covering all basses first.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Daniel E. Snell on Sunday, April 24, 2016 - 06:08 pm:

Stephen,
The clutch pedal and brake pedal stop about 1 inch or slightly more from the floor board, but not the reverse pedal. The clutch fingers do move slightly when the parking brake is engaged.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Sunday, April 24, 2016 - 07:00 pm:

What you need to check first out is the battery condition as you state the wiring is OK. Are you totally sure about that wiring? Starter was rebuilt you say. Was that properly done and did this problem suddenly develop? Even a "weak" starter will spin with no drag on it so that really proves nothing. Re-install the Bendix, you can leave the cover off. Run a set of jumper cables direct from the battery to the starter. Hook up to the batt and clip the other Pos. end to the starter terminal lug. Ground the other neg. to the starter itself. (this prevents arcing at the starter terminal possibly whacking the threads. If it's better your wiring/connections are the problem. If it's not better, (and that batt. is OK) your starter is acting up. Proof positive and solid diagnostics. Do check your cable connections at the batt posts. If one of them is bad and you hook jumpers to the cable connection the starter will act the same.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Schedler, Sacramento on Sunday, April 24, 2016 - 07:07 pm:

Just because the starter spins does not mean it has enough power to handle the load. Could be the inner workings and hidden mechanisms of the starter. Run a ground strap from frame to engine?? MHO


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