Beer can Shim/keyway support

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: Beer can Shim/keyway support
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Seelman on Monday, April 25, 2016 - 10:09 am:



Started a project to rebuild the emergency brakes. Right one was fine, left one pulled and it looks like the key way broke and my grandpa or someone used an old Old Milwaukee beer can as a shim/ key way support. First time I had heard of that


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron in Central Massachusetts on Monday, April 25, 2016 - 10:35 am:

Think that was a pretty common fix years ago. Have come across it multiple times when pulling the rear wheels on a doodlebug.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mario Brossard on Monday, April 25, 2016 - 10:38 am:

Ha Ha not a bad idea, It is on Henry Ford spirit. Easy to repair a Model T and accessible for everybody. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Monday, April 25, 2016 - 11:32 am:

I cut shims like that from a paint can. There are also new ones sold by the parts dealers.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Monday, April 25, 2016 - 11:36 am:

I haven't seen that as a support for the keyway, but I have seen and used it to space the hub farther out on the axle. This is quite often needed when the car has Rocky Mountain brakes installed and the original drums are installed inside the Rocky drums. That pushes the original drums closer to the backing plate and will cause the parking brake to drag unless either a longer axle is installed or a shim is installed.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jason Kuczynski on Monday, April 25, 2016 - 11:54 am:

I learned that trick from my Grandpa too. I had a problem as a youngster with the handlebars on my BMX bike not holding the setting I wanted them too. He used a Red, White and Blue beer can as a shim though. ;)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Henry Petrino in Modesto, CA on Monday, April 25, 2016 - 12:08 pm:

I've seen brass shims for regular T's available from vendors but never one for a TT. I needed one for my truck so l bought a thin small sheet of brass and made one. If I would have thought of using a beer can I would have saved a couple of dollars. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Monday, April 25, 2016 - 01:10 pm:

If you do this, which I don't advise anyway, please use steel shim instead of brass, which will squash out and wear away quickly, leaving the wheel loose.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Schedler, Sacramento on Monday, April 25, 2016 - 01:49 pm:

Aluminum and Brass are too soft: use something else. IMHO


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Monday, April 25, 2016 - 02:04 pm:

If the keyway is damaged in the axle shaft, then you need a new axle shaft. Always good to have a look inside the pumpkin too - usually there are more stuff needed in an old unrestored axle like bronze thrust washers instead of the break prone babbitt originals and perhaps a better pinion bearing in the driveshaft?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Monday, April 25, 2016 - 02:19 pm:

the steel shim on tapered axle end has been a time-honored "fix" for many things; worn taper, rubbing drum, etc. Done properly, with good taper on both axle and hub, it can work for decades. And yes, don't use brass or aluminum (modern beer cans)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Monday, April 25, 2016 - 03:33 pm:

A "good taper on both axle and hub" needs no shim. The shim is a Band-Aid to allow you to use a worn-out hub and/or axle.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Monday, April 25, 2016 - 06:05 pm:

Jerry,
It does if the axle is a bit too short (added brake drum, or some other malady).


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ted Dumas on Monday, April 25, 2016 - 07:44 pm:

I have used a brass shim on my 24. I have had no problems with brass shim. If the hub got slightly loose then the bras would go quicker than a steel shim. As long as it's a solid tight fitting connection I don't see why brass should be a problem.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Tuesday, April 26, 2016 - 10:56 am:

Ted,

Except maybe for David's scenario above, the reason most people use a shim is due to wear in the hub and axle. The wear causes minimal contact area between the hub & axle, instead of the ideal 100% contact. With a brass shim in place, the "spots" of contact will compress the soft brass. Maybe not immediately, when it's assembled, but in time, through use. Once the slightest movement is allowed to occur, the brass will wear quickly and you've got a loose wheel.

The same can happen with a steel shim too. It just takes longer.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Seelman on Thursday, April 28, 2016 - 07:54 am:

OK boys, the plot thickens. While replacing the emergency brake, the bolt heads to the brake drum and the bolt head to the pivot for the emergency brake are just about worn down to nothing. I got them all out. Questions What could they possibly be rubbing on and how do I correct? Thanks yet again

John


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Seelman on Thursday, April 28, 2016 - 07:55 am:

By the way....It's the same side (driver's side) as the beer can shim. The other side was perfectly fine

John


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Thursday, April 28, 2016 - 08:24 am:

Uh-oh. Have you ever checked the rear axle guts?

http://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG79.html


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Thursday, April 28, 2016 - 09:58 am:

John,

Worn out hub bores and axles allow the hub to go way too far onto the axle shafts. When that happens, the bolts you mention will rub against each other and against the spring perch nut & stud. The "remedy" for that is putting a shim between the hub and axle. However, it's no remedy at all because the critical parts are still worn out junk.

The other cause for what you're describing is what Steve is alluding to above. That being, worn out thrust washers on either side of your differential. When worn out, or worn away to nothing, it allows excessive side play in the rearend, i.e. axle shafts, and allows the hub bolts to rub. It also allows the ring and pinion gears to climb over each other, a very dangerous condition that, in the case of a Model T, is the same as brake failure.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James Baker on Thursday, April 28, 2016 - 10:40 am:

Pabst blue ribbon cans are the way to go


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