Valve Job questions

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: Valve Job questions
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert J. Gaffney on Thursday, April 28, 2016 - 12:24 am:

So the '21 Depot Hack was running great until I noticed a small tick, upon removing the side cover I found that a lifter had come apart. It looks to have adjustable lifters installed. However I'm not sure what the rubber gaskets inside are they resemble later model GM umbrella gaskets but I'm not sure. I'd like some advice on how to proceed. Do I need to do a total valve job ? Can this valve be compressed and the pin replaced ? And where can I get the gaskets shown here ? PLEASE HELP


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert J. Gaffney on Thursday, April 28, 2016 - 12:24 am:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Bennett - Australia on Thursday, April 28, 2016 - 01:20 am:

Robert, the rubber gaskets are an un-necessary complication. Toss them. The springs can be compressed and new pins installed in situ. There are special tools to compress the springs, or you can improvise. The side plate gaskets are available from the vendors.

Hope this helps.
Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth in Alabama on Thursday, April 28, 2016 - 01:40 am:

Hey Robert, just scrape off the gaskets and get some new ones. Www.modeltford.com or www.snydersantiqueauto.com will be able to fix you right up.

As for the valve, you'll need to look at the bottom and double check but I think you probably just need a new spring seat. Looking at the ones I had, your spring seats all look really skinny like they were made from pretty thin sheet metal. At least compared to ones I have now. I personally would just get a whole set of 8 new seats and pins, and like Allan I say get rid of those rubber things inside the springs, they don't belong.

The valve spring tool is helpful especially if you're doing the job by yourself. But, I can attest to the fact that the job is doable without it.

I do have a question for anyone else reading this - will he have enough room in the head to raise the valve up and get the spring off? It'll definitely be easier if you go ahead and pull the spark plugs so you can use a screwdriver or maybe an allen wrench to hold the valves up as high as possible while you're trying to get the springs off.

Good luck! Keep us posted. Aren't these old cars fun?!? LOL


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Thursday, April 28, 2016 - 03:26 am:

Why remove the springs. Seth? If no valve job is needed, then all you need is to lift up the valve spring seat and put in a new pin. There have been bad batches of valve pins - change them all and check so the new ones are harder than bailing wire.. Some make their own out of drill rod. The remains of the gasket can stay, can't do any harm in there

But.. Try to find and remove the remains of the broken pin :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kevin Whelihan Danbury, WI on Thursday, April 28, 2016 - 06:30 am:

Since most Model T valve springs aren't anywhere near as beefy as regular automotive valve springs, you can usually use a small engine valve spring compressor to get the job done. Those are kind of expensive though, so I would try to rent or borrow one before purchasing it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Seth in Alabama on Thursday, April 28, 2016 - 08:26 am:

Roger I was mainly thinking about getting those rubber things inside the springs out.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Gould, Folsom, CA on Thursday, April 28, 2016 - 08:28 am:

Heres what I use.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Wilde-Tool-Pro-Small-Engine-Valve-Spring-Compressor-Cove r-Lifter-MADE-IN-USA-/131426682516?hash=item1e99a40694:g:2ZAAAOxy4dNSzz4Z&item=1 31426682516&vxp=mtr


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By gene french on Thursday, April 28, 2016 - 09:36 am:

Robert:
looks like all you really need to do is replace the valve pin ...looks like a pin laying in the valve chamber to the left of the effected valve ...possibly just came out or is worn in half ...i would use the "old fashion" valve spring compressor and just compress the spring and replace the pin ...this tool looks like a pair of pliers with a reverse action ...opens the jaws instead of closing like a normal plier action ...always an optimist...gene french


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem - SE Michigan on Thursday, April 28, 2016 - 09:44 am:

The spring washers/keepers look like very flimsy replacements. I think when get into it, you'll find that the pin is intact but has worn through the washer. Original keeper washers are way thicker than what you have in your photo.

You can throw away those rubber pieces.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Henry Petrino in Modesto, CA on Thursday, April 28, 2016 - 09:50 am:

Robert,

Where are you? I bet you can find one of us nearby who would be happy to loan you a valve spring compressor.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert J. Gaffney on Thursday, April 28, 2016 - 11:59 am:

Thanks everyone for the responses, after reading the description I have found a pair of the spring compressors in grandpas tool box. I'm going to order new seats and pins and replace them all while I have it apart and see where it goes from there. Thanks once again for all the advice.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Lloid on Thursday, April 28, 2016 - 12:58 pm:

They look to be umbrella seals on the valves to me. Just my opinion.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Thursday, April 28, 2016 - 01:46 pm:

Robert,

You should try to get some used original valve keepers. The new ones are no good, and likely caused the problem that you have. Mark Freimiller probably has some he would sell.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert J. Gaffney on Sunday, May 01, 2016 - 06:46 pm:

You gentleman were correct here is the result, I found originals in my parts stash. Just have to finish replacing them all now.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By joe bell on Sunday, May 01, 2016 - 06:54 pm:

You may want to look at the springs to see if some one may have installed Model A springs there instead, they sure are hard on the valves, had to replace some last year where it mushroomed the valves from the pressure on them.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Sunday, May 01, 2016 - 07:12 pm:

Any comments about the umbrella seals? If it were me, I would remove them while I had things apart. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Lloid on Sunday, May 01, 2016 - 07:27 pm:

I would pull the umbrella seals out for sure and they are probably old and hard from oil and engine heat. I used those for years on drag cars with worn guides to slow oil consumption. These were used on old 289 fords and early small block Chevys. Just what I haven seen them on. Tim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Leck - Ohio on Sunday, May 01, 2016 - 08:15 pm:

Robert,

I had the same thing happen to one of my intake valves last summer. Good thing I was close enough to home to limp back. The engine would barely move the car in low. My engine was "rebuilt" by the previous owner a few years ago and apparently the thin spring seats were used...I hear that was a problem with some new replacements. The current batch of new replacements are heavier. I used a small engine spring compressor which was marginally functional on the T. I've since kept my eye out for a compressor made for the T in the MTFCA classifieds and bought one from a fellow collector. I'm sure with a Want Ad you could pry one out of someone's stash if you desire to have the right tool. There's also a version that can be hand made from simple parts if you're able to braze or weld. Someone might have a photo of this. The vendors sell it too I think.

Here's something else: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/80257/94685.html?1249483184
Some guidance on setting adjustable valve lifters from Glen Chaffin. Mine were set to the original spec of .030". After following Glen's suggestions, I found the engine to run much quieter with some noticeable improvement in performance.

Best of luck getting your car going again!

John


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