Greasing 26/27 Outer Wheel Bearings. How much?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: Greasing 26/27 Outer Wheel Bearings. How much?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Brough on Monday, May 09, 2016 - 09:22 am:

Packed all my rear axle wheel bearings prior to reassembly. Outer wheel bearings have grease cup fittings. I've read that "normal" grease cup fittings should take about 2 or 3 "fillings" to properly grease the part.
But, in my mind, the wheel bearigns are not sealed in any way. Open at either end with a felt outer seal and no inner seal until the inner wheel bearing. So I'm picturing filling this grease cap and threading it on and off hundreds of times and still not filling the entire axle tube, which I am sure is not the intent.

So, with the wheel bearings already packed, how much grease should I put in the fittings, if any, for a while?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Monday, May 09, 2016 - 09:50 am:

Robert

The '26-'27 came with inner leather seals behind the Hyatt sleeve. Today the use of modern neoprene is what is done for the inner seal.

The outer in front of the Hyatt can be old style Ford felt, but modern 0-ring and neoprene ones are made and fit and last a long time.

The outer Hyatt's depend on grease for lube, the inner Hyatt's use the rear end 600w heavy oil for lube.

After packing with new grease, the outer bearing should be re-greased every 500 miles.



The used worn grease will liquefy and find its way out of a well-sealed Hyatt anyway, and normally just move into the axle housing and join up with that 600w or vice versa :-)

Result of too little lube at the outer bearing is this! :-(


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Brough on Monday, May 09, 2016 - 11:08 am:

Oooops.
I installed a new style poly boot on the wheel side of the inner sleve and race. I presume this is to keep the lower visc. oil 600w in the pumpkin and oiling the inner race, but not getting out to the outer seal and brakes and hubs.

I've got the outer felt seals that go on the wheel side of the outer race and sleeve, fitted with the cap and then the wheel. I did not install anything on the pumplin side of the outer sleeve and race. So that's why I'm thinking there is nothing to hold the grease pressed in through the grease cap from going all the way down the tube.

Should there be a third seal on the axle shaft on the pumpkin side of the outer sleeve and bearing?

Don't wanna do it, but if I have to remove the outer sleeve and bearing and install something, I hope I can do this with the axle in place as I really don't want to disassemlbe the entire differential again to do this.

Sure didn't see anything in the axle rebuild booklet I got about a third seal.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Monday, May 09, 2016 - 11:34 am:

RE the outer bearings. Today many of us use the modern seal on the inboard end of the outer bearing, some use the felt. Some use the outer modern seal some use the felt/cap/washer. You really dont need the felt that goes between the hub and cap on the wheel when using the modern outer seal and I think that extra felt seal may have been dropped anyway. I would suggest adding the inner seals for the outer bearing, pumpkin side. Right now it sounds like you are trying to fill the axle tubes with grease rather then just grease the bearings. You can still drive the car, there was no inner seal till the 26/27 models came out.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Monday, May 09, 2016 - 12:05 pm:

Robert

IF you fitted a modern outer seal (neoprene with steel backed washer) to the 'Inner' Hyatt, and you got correct fit of the thrust washers, then you did good. That place isn't to have any seal, and I just don't know if the seal fits there in the housing and lets the steel thrust washers fit flush. If you got good fit, then you have done a first! Sealing off the inner Hyatt to keep the 600W there.


Steel washer has to fit flush to the inner sleeve fitted. i.e. the sleeve can't extend about the housing.


Normal fitting of a seal is for the outer Hyatt bearing, that keeps the 600w from getting to the rear wheel emergency brakes, and messy leaks at the wheel hub.



So if you left off that seal on the outer, you can add one easy. Remove the wheel again, pull the Hyatt bearing out, using a sleeve puller, pull the sleeve again, and then insert a modern neoprene and reinstall the parts again.





Fitting new modern neoprene seal for the outer. (sleeve removed)



Instead of the old Ford method, steel washer over end of Hyatt bearing, felt, and then metal cap hammered over the housing, these new modern outer caps, with O-rings and neoprene fit snug, and seal great. Plus is they can be reused over and over again each time you do the annual pulling of the outer bearings to inspect and clean and re-grease. The outer bearings in the Ford axle take most all the load and need good care.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Brough on Monday, May 09, 2016 - 12:55 pm:

Fortunately when I ordered my new style boot inner seals, I ordered two sets, so I got 4. So here's what I'm going to end up with . . .

From the pumkin out . . .
thrust washers
bearing/race
sleeve
grease seal boot type with boot facing towards wheel
axle and tube
grease seal boot type with boot facing twards puumpkin
outer sleeve
outer race/bearing
washer
felt seal
cap

Will that get me close? With this thinking, I can add grease to the outer bearing and it will be contained between the boot type washer seal and the outer felt seal. Maybe?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Monday, May 09, 2016 - 04:21 pm:

Just wondering how you fitted that modern seal to the inside pumpkin for sealing the inner bearing?

I have a hard time fitting the axle assembly into the pumpkin and tube and trying to keep the thrust washers on their pins. Pushing that axle the whole way thru the modern boot seal must have been a chore.



For me that little boot seal is the dickens to fit so it won't fold up on itself prior to seating at the housing end, before placing the Hyatt sleeve. Most times add some silicone lube to the rubber neoprene seal and use the sleeve puller as a 'pusher' to slowly slip that seal down the stub end of the axle for the outer seal.

You had to push the entire axle thru that modern seal to seat the rear axle assembly in the pumpkin.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Tuesday, May 10, 2016 - 09:54 am:

I thought about doing the same thing Re installing a boot outboard of the inner bearing, but the problem is the machined surface does not extend far enough past the bearing for the seal to ride on if you are using original axle shafts. If you modern fully machined axles that might be different.


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