I swear this car is possessed ......

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: I swear this car is possessed ......
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Donnie Brown North Central Arkansas on Tuesday, May 10, 2016 - 08:56 pm:

The 27 touring has reared its evil side again. This has to be the most snake-bit car I have ever had. I just can not get it to run good. and stay fixed. I have had more problems with this cars restoration than all the rest put together. I have been trying to get the car to run smoother. It starts good but lacks power. So I have rebuilt 2 NH carbs, (both run the same) I have new Ron Patterson rebuilt coils. I have a NOS New Day timer, and I have added new waterproof "Fun Projects" wood kit to the coil box. The engine has about 600 miles on a complete rebuild with new cam, bearings, valves, adjustable lifters, piston and rings, ect. The whole ball game ... but no matter what I do the car still runs rough and no power. It just seems to struggle all the time. The plugs always have a dark almost damp black soot. So I thought I would re-check the valve clearances and see if maybe the adjustable lifters had changed. When I opened the side cover I saw pure green anti-freeze on two of the valve springs and cups. One of them (the second from the front) had only one drop of green (it did not show up in the pictures). But the 4th valve from the front has a solid green pool on it. I have not drained the oil yet. I will do that tomorrow and see if there is much in the pan. My first thoughts was the top of the oil galley in the valve chamber between #2 and #3 cylinders. 26-27 engines are prone to cracks there. With a mirror I can not see any sign of leak between #2 and #3 cylinder. and everything is still nice and clean. So that probably only leaves the head gasket (I hope) There could be a crack in the valve ports, but I hope not likely. I magnafluxed the block before we put it together.... So it looks like the head is coming off tomorrow... AAAAAARG .... :-( :-( ... OK I have vented some now.... Thanks for listening ...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Donnie Brown North Central Arkansas on Tuesday, May 10, 2016 - 09:00 pm:

I forgot the pictures ..

1

2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron in Central Massachusetts on Tuesday, May 10, 2016 - 09:05 pm:

Dumb question, but I'll ask anyways Donnie. When the rebuild was done, did they replace the freeze plugs? Any sign of them leaking down past the side cover? No explanation for the lack of power, but might explain the antifreeze.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Tuesday, May 10, 2016 - 09:07 pm:

The bright side here is that if the problem is just a leaky head gasket, it's an easy fix.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron in Central Massachusetts on Tuesday, May 10, 2016 - 09:08 pm:

Was typing my last when you sent the pictures. Given that the antifreeze is confined to the cap and not in the galley, I guess it's not coming from the freeze plug.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Owens on Tuesday, May 10, 2016 - 09:11 pm:

Donnie, Antifreeze in the oil well kill bearings or any metal to metal surfaces. Get it out till you find the problem. Scott


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Tuesday, May 10, 2016 - 09:20 pm:

At best it is a leaky head gasket. That would also cause it to misfire on whichever cylinder is wet. However it should smooth out after it warms up and the antifreeze goes out the exhaust. Check the compression. It should be around 50 psi on all cylinders. If low on one or more, you have a problem.

at worst, you have a crack in either the block or the head. In that case, you have a major problem to fix.

Sorry about that.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Eagle Idaho Falls on Tuesday, May 10, 2016 - 09:21 pm:

Better possessed than repossessed. When my head gasket blew I had water running out of the carburetor and exhaust pipe and exhaust out the radiator neck. It was the hit of the car tour. I'm betting it is just the head gasket. Enjoy the fun while it lasts.
Rich


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Lloid on Tuesday, May 10, 2016 - 09:29 pm:

I could be the head gasket and it's cheap and easy to change especially on a new engine. I had that same look inside a model a that I paid to much for several years ago. It was the head gasket, everything else on that car was shot. I restored it and it's my favorite model A now. Good luck!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Donnie Brown North Central Arkansas on Tuesday, May 10, 2016 - 09:55 pm:

I think this is a long term slow leak or just happened. The car has sat for most of the winter and only driven once this spring. But I do not see any milky look to the oil. The anti freeze almost has to be from a head gasket or crack in the block in a valve port to collect where it is. But I need to get it into the work shop to tear it down. Maybe tomorrow. On the bright side, the valve clearances are still good ... nothing has changed I was hoping to have it ready for the Petitt Jean swap meet and car show in Morrilton Arkansas on fathers day weekend. If only a head gasket then maybe . ...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Barrett in Auburn Ca. on Tuesday, May 10, 2016 - 10:09 pm:

Donnie, did you re torque the head after running it the first few times? It has to be done. Keep after it until it takes no more adjustment. This is especially true with an aluminum head. I have repaired a number of rebuilt engines that developed slow leaks from loose heads and caused minor problems to complete nightmares and everything in between. Check your head bolts. If they are loose, just properly torque them and see if the leak goes away. Make sure to get any coolant out of the pan.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Donnie Brown North Central Arkansas on Tuesday, May 10, 2016 - 10:53 pm:

Erik, yes I re torqued at least three times. I also just checked them again, because of me removing the coil box to do the rebuild of the wood in it. I do not think removing the three head bolts for the coil box caused the problem, because I had the miss and poor running before I removed the coil box. but it may have aggravated it .. ??? Everything was still good. as to torque on the other bolts and I re torqued once more after putting the coil box back on and running the engine for about 4 miles and letting it cool overnight. Im going to order me a new gasket tomorrow ... and hope for the best ...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Barrett in Auburn Ca. on Wednesday, May 11, 2016 - 02:58 am:

I don't think temporarily removing the coil box is a problem, it has been done many times. If you are going to pull the head off run a thread chaser or tap down the bolt holes to make sure they are clear of debris. You should be able to put the head on without a gasket and run the bolts down until they touch the head. That gives you the thickness of the gasket as a safety margin when bolting the head down. Also be sure the gasket is oriented correctly, watch the shape of the gasket at either end where it matches the water passages. If you still have a leak, you may have to pressure test the block and head at a few PSI and watch in the valve chamber. Make sure the valve that had the coolant on it is open. Hope it doesn't come to that.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Bender Tulsa Oklahoma on Wednesday, May 11, 2016 - 06:23 am:

Donnie sent you a PM


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Donnie Brown North Central Arkansas on Wednesday, May 11, 2016 - 09:46 am:

Erik the head bolt holes were cleaned and threads chased, I always do the no head gasket test of the bolts, and the gasket is always orientated large hole/small hole as it should be to the water jacket. It has nothing to do with the water leak, but I also flowed oil around the intake gaskets to see if maybe one of them was leaking and causing the poor running. The gaskets were OK. Well off to the shop and see if I can find anything .... Thanks for the input guys ...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Donnie Brown North Central Arkansas on Wednesday, May 11, 2016 - 08:48 pm:

Well I found the leak. It is coming from near the top of the valve chamber between #2 and #3 cylinder. I have not pulled the head yet, but I am 99% sure it is coming from the top of the valve chamber. I filled the radiator all the way to the top today, and cleaned out the valve chamber very well. After sitting all day I have one drop of antifreeze running down the side of the cylinder. It looks like it is coming out of the pores of the metal. So it may be a sand pit. Where it is located will be almost impossible to get to without a full tear down and turn the engine upside down. Even then it would be very hard to get to. So it looks like "water glass" is going to be my only real option. I drained the oil today and not a sign of any water or antifreeze in it. The antifreeze shown in the photos above either just started leaking or took all winter to make about a 1/4 teaspoon of anti-freeze in the valve chamber. I ordered a new head gasket, but I think Im going to try the water glass first and just have the head gasket "in case" Since it is such a small "seep" I feel like the "water glass" should work. I also plan on removing the anti-freeze and running straight water all summer. That will give it a chance to "rust shut". So not the "end of the world" type of thing, but one more thing to add to the problems of this car. You would think the old girl would like the fixing and restoration work, but she has fought me every step of the way ... :-)


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