Lowering speedster rearend

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: Lowering speedster rearend
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By King Martin on Saturday, May 21, 2016 - 05:18 pm:

Somewhere I remember seeing information pertaining to how different modifications would lower the rearend in inches. The only one I can remember is the reverse eyed spring will lower the rear 1 inch. I am wanting to swap sides with the differential housings to have the spring perch underneath the axle. Does anyone know how many inches of a drop that will result in?
Thanks.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Chaffin......Corona, CA on Saturday, May 21, 2016 - 05:33 pm:

Large drum or small drum rear axle? Also, the oil fill hole will be on top instead of on the bottom.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By King Martin on Saturday, May 21, 2016 - 05:53 pm:

Small drum


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Chaffin......Corona, CA on Saturday, May 21, 2016 - 06:06 pm:

Rotating the small drum backing plate will give you about an eight inch drop when also using the small drum arched spring hanger. Spring will need to be mounted ahead or behind the rear axle.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Brough on Saturday, May 21, 2016 - 06:30 pm:

I'm not picturing this mod in my mind. If the spring purchase mount on the backing plate is reversed, won't the axle tubes now be in the way of connecting your spring to it? Won't it be directly underneath the axle tube? How would you connect it? And even if you came up with some sort of extension rod, you axle would not be forward or bahind your leaf spring resulting in a driveshaft modification.

On the speedster project donor vehicle that I got for my WWI patrol vehicle, I removed the Warford and the lowered rear suspension. I am not going to use it. It was repsented to me that this was lowered 4" and it did it by removing the brake cam, removing the spring mount and moving the spring mount to the brake cam hole and using 4 shackle brakets that bolted on one end to the spring mount and the other end to the leaf spring purchase with just a big bolt.
This moved the axle to be behind the leaf spring, but with the Warford, the driveshaft was shortened anyway, so I think the did it all at once. I'll try to find some photos.
I have the entire assembly available if anyone has need of it in Atlanta, GA


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Brough on Saturday, May 21, 2016 - 06:51 pm:

Some post post thoughts. I just went out and measured the speedster set up. The distance from the original spring purchase mouunting bushing bracket on the brake backing plate to move it to the brake cam hol will lower it about 4" as that is the distance between the two hole.
My shackle brakets added another 4" of lowering for a total of eight inches from the standard leaf spring mounting location.
And it moved the leaf spring forward of the axle so that a modification to the driveshaft was necessary. But, if you are lowering the springs mount anywhere, in my mind, you will need to shorten the drivshaft. Even if you just rotated the axle tubes and differential. The axle tubes are just in the way.
Of course if you move the mounting bushing tube to another location like the brake cam hole, you will not have a hand brake. Just as my speedster had none.

Also, if you flip the differential, without changing the ring gear configuration, won't the car move in reverse when you want it to move forward? Or am I not seeing this as well.

Not a simple plug and play solution. Something's gotta give.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By King Martin on Saturday, May 21, 2016 - 08:10 pm:

Fixed like this


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By King Martin on Saturday, May 21, 2016 - 08:12 pm:

Just shorten the frame


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Brough on Saturday, May 21, 2016 - 09:00 pm:

If your new lowered leaf spring mounts behind the axle,, yes, you would shorten the frame by a few inches. If your spring mounts in front of the axle, as mine did, you would need to lengthen the frame. A little more difficult, IMO.

My speedster had the 26/27 spindles on the front end, so the lowered rear end and the front end were fairly level. I've left the front end alone and mounted the leaf spring in the standard method and I have a 3" drop from the rear end to the front. But, my WWI vehicle will have a utility truck bed look about her, so a slightly higher rear end is acceptable.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By King Martin on Saturday, May 21, 2016 - 09:31 pm:

No you have it backwards. If I move the leaf spring forward of the axle. I need to shorten frame a few inches to move rear spring mount forward.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Knapp on Saturday, May 21, 2016 - 11:40 pm:

If you go to the Northwest Vintage Speedster website (NWVS) and look at the "Technical Reference" section, you will find a 16 page section showing all sorts of original period lowering techniques. It is under my name, and "Lowering". It might be helpful.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By King Martin on Saturday, May 21, 2016 - 11:56 pm:

Thanks Tim. I have committed your work to memory in the past. Lots of great information. My front end was lowered about 8.5" and I was trying to get the rear about the same.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By King Martin on Sunday, May 22, 2016 - 12:01 am:

Robert your speedster differential setup is interesting. Wonder what they were using for brakes. I assume a set of Rockies or ac's, I would hate to rely on the transmission brake band.

On modifications to frame, I had to think about whether I wanted spring in front or rear of differential. I chose in front to allow a Panhard bar to be fabricated on the rear.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Brough on Sunday, May 22, 2016 - 10:10 am:

Absolutely no evidence of any additional brakes on my original speedster other than band brake. No rods or quadrants for brakes and no ev evidence of any mods to the brake pedal. Wire wheels are painted yellow and no sign of any paint being worn off by brake pads.

I think previous owner just went round and round in a circle at high speeds and wasn't worried about having to stop.

Hence, it's removal from my project starting point.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Joe Andulics on Sunday, May 22, 2016 - 04:25 pm:

Simple way to lower the rear end. No need to lengthen the frame or cut the driveshaft. Cut these from 1" thick A36 steel plate. Gives a 6" drop. Dimensions are easily found in "Model T Ford in Speed and Sport" and "The Fast Ford Handbook". I modified the original design slightly by adding the notch to make locating the bracket in the frame easier. I intend to bolt them to the rear crossmember rather than weld. Enjoy




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill Bohlen on Monday, May 23, 2016 - 10:26 am:

Antique T Motor Sports rear lowering brackets view the items at http://stores.ebay.com/antique-t-motor-sports-llc


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Joe Andulics on Monday, May 23, 2016 - 11:16 am:

Sorry Bill, forgot to mention that you have a similar bracket available. Joe


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By King Martin on Monday, May 23, 2016 - 03:06 pm:

Thank you for the replies, but I Can't use z'd frame with my body. I have a 8.5" drop on front end and am wanting roughly the same on rear. Flipping the axle housings will give me the drop I am looking for.....I think.......


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Brough on Monday, May 23, 2016 - 04:55 pm:

When I Google searched this topic trying to get back to it, it brought up many previous threads with different opinions, photos and links. You may want to Google Model T Forum Lowering and see what comes up.
One option discuussed is that the vendors sell different arched rear springs and a alteration to the rear spring may give you the drop you need.
I know I've got some sight issues, but I havent seen a photo yet that shows a leaf spring mounted underneath the axle that is not in front or behind it. In my mind, that's the only way it can mount. And that, would, make a frame modification necessary to keep the driveshaft length correct. Am I missing something?

So flipping your differential (I still think your car will go backwards) will put the mounting tube and bushing underneath the axle tub. But I'm still not seeing how you will connect the leaf spring to it with the axle tube in the way. Is removing the backing plates and reattaching them to the axle tubes an easier option than flipping the entire rear end?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By bob middleton on Monday, May 23, 2016 - 10:41 pm:

I used Bills lowering kit came out ok I'm just hoping it track as good as a T should.
I was going to rotate the backing plate but decided
That was to much work


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By King Martin on Monday, May 23, 2016 - 11:48 pm:

Robert by flipping differential I mean taking off the housings and swapping sides. That puts the spring perch under the differential and the perch is rotated 180 degrees. The spring will go in front of the axle as you are picturing. If you scroll up and see the picture I posted it will give you a better idea. I will have to modify the frame though.


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