2 piece valves

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: 2 piece valves
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kim Dobbins on Sunday, May 22, 2016 - 10:58 am:

I'm doing a valve job today on a real nice original 1916 touring. It still has the original 2 piece valves. I'd like to still use them, but I'm a bit Leary. Has anyone had a problem with these valves coming apart? Thanks.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tony Bowker, Ramona, CA on Sunday, May 22, 2016 - 11:02 am:

Yes..... After they failed in my coupe, Bruce (RIP) told me they were only good for throwing away.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Sunday, May 22, 2016 - 11:11 am:

They are well known for loosing their tops and doing nasty things to the engine. Google "mtfca; two piece valves" I am sure you will get a number of hits with photos or the resulting damage.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By bob middleton on Sunday, May 22, 2016 - 11:35 am:

Well I have run them with no issues but I have seen
Seen them come apart in a violent way as well
But if they are good in the guides and valve look decent I run them and take my chances


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John McGinnis in San Jose area, CA. on Sunday, May 22, 2016 - 11:40 am:

I have had a valve where the head came loose...but it seemed to be keyed to the shaft so that it was retained.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Longbranch,WA on Sunday, May 22, 2016 - 11:41 am:

Here's an example of what can happen - the rest was rattling around in the muffler !


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Sunday, May 22, 2016 - 11:56 am:

At the Centennial in Richmond there were at least two different cars that DNF'd because of original two piece valves snapping the heads off. One car had a broken cast iron piston, the other just had a scored cylinder wall.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Aldrich Orting Wa on Sunday, May 22, 2016 - 12:05 pm:

I had one come apart and made HORRIBLE noises! Was able to rebuild the engine however.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kim Dobbins on Sunday, May 22, 2016 - 12:08 pm:

Ok! I give up. The original valves are so nice I really hate to change them, but I'll be putting in new one piece valves. Thanks all.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Semprez-Templeton, CA on Sunday, May 22, 2016 - 12:11 pm:

I too have a really nice '16 engine I'm rebuilding with very nice cast valves, but I replaced them any way with new SS valves. My rational was the only time anyone would know I had them would be when I removed the head to replace a broken one.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Keith Townsend ; ^ ) Gresham, Orygun on Sunday, May 22, 2016 - 12:15 pm:

Kim-
They are hidden away inside the engine...it will help you sleep well at night...no one will know...and your secret is safe with us.

You can use the original valves for a wall display, right next to original differential babbitt thrust washers, and an oil-fill timer.

: ^ )


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Wolf on Sunday, May 22, 2016 - 12:34 pm:

What is the best way to spot a 2 piece valve?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Longbranch,WA on Sunday, May 22, 2016 - 12:55 pm:

Usually by the 2 holes in the top of the valve for the grinding tool.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Sunday, May 22, 2016 - 12:56 pm:

There are multiple pictures of two piece valves in this thread:

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/331880/355986.html?1388195633


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Longbranch,WA on Sunday, May 22, 2016 - 12:58 pm:

These holes:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kim Dobbins on Sunday, May 22, 2016 - 01:10 pm:

I called Chaffins this morning and Glen is putting a new set of valves out on the porch so my wife can pick them up on her way home from softball tonight. Thanks glen for opening up on Sunday for me! Much appreciated!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jared Buckert on Sunday, May 22, 2016 - 10:59 pm:

My car is still running two-piece valves. As if I needed another reason to be paranoid...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By bob middleton on Monday, May 23, 2016 - 01:02 am:

Don't worry they work great until one comes apart
Seen them both one has two notches other has a slot
This notch or slots was for use of valve grinding tool
Oop! Catch me if you can Grammer police


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By JohnH on Monday, May 23, 2016 - 01:16 am:

Had a hole punched through the head driving on a freeway because a valve came apart. It made a metallic rattling noise at first, and then when I pulled over, water trickled out the exhaust and carburettor.
These valves are an example of where the original design is not always the best.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Monday, May 23, 2016 - 04:10 am:

They did occasionally fail many years ago before they became really old. I knew of several hobbyist failures in the '60s and '70s, and have had them second only to the Babbitt thrust washers on my "do not try it" list.
Like the Babbitt washers, they were not quite so bad when they were new. But with age, some materials are prone to corrosion, which results in weakness. Sometimes in a very bad place. The valves were cast with the stems in place. After too many decades, water and rust can get inside between the steel stem and the iron head. The head could crack, or not. It may be very tight, held in place by rust instead of formed iron. Without an X-ray analysis, or damaging intervention, there really is no good way to know if one is good or bad. They simply are not worth the risk. Especially on valuable early blocks.

I think that I may be working on my twelfth model T, and I have never run a two-piece valve. I have followed the advice given me by several very good friends over 45 years ago. I actually may be considering running a set of them, however. I have a reject pile of mostly marginally bad parts including some stuff of what may have been a doodle-bug/tractor. I could really use one on my one acre hillside place. If I get far enough with a few other things soon, I may consider using two-piece valves in that.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Monday, May 23, 2016 - 08:16 am:

"Usually by the 2 holes in the top of the valve for the grinding tool."

Steve -- I thought that too, then I came across an engine which had 1-piece valves with the two holes. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By brian lawrence on Monday, May 23, 2016 - 09:19 am:

I was told that in later years Henry changed his design and began using one piece valves? If so when?.........Brian


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Monday, May 23, 2016 - 09:27 am:

From prior thread

"MAY 26 Engine production records, Ford Archives
Engine 15,000,000 built this date. 14,999,999 to 15,000,001 were held out of May 25 production. The last number built May 25 was 15,002,217.


MAY 31 Engine production records, Ford Archives
All-steel valves now used in all engines except those for export.


JUL 29, 1925.. Letter 1668 from the Fargo branch
"A special all-steel valve for Model T cars and trucks is now available through service stock, and in order to effect a complete initial distribution of this product to all dealers, we will include a small quantity with your next parts order.

"This all-steel valve is very much superior to the present type valve and we therefore recommend its use in your repair and service work."



If Ford said to change out the two piece in repairs, that means do it!! :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Monday, May 23, 2016 - 09:28 am:

Opps, that should be 1926, I typed the year wrong.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Zachary Dillinger - Charlotte, MI on Monday, May 23, 2016 - 03:09 pm:

My Model T mentor told me always replace three things no matter what: rear axle thrust washers, emergency brake linings, and two-piece valves. I only have one T but did all three things before driving the car anywhere, even in the yard.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Longbranch,WA on Monday, May 23, 2016 - 05:53 pm:

Thanks Mike - learn something new everyday !


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith, Lomita, California on Monday, May 23, 2016 - 08:13 pm:

I had an old '25 pickup once, that Kim has seen many times. It was one of those old survivors. It had original Ford valves, and I never had a problem with them, however, if I was to rebuild an engine, I wouldn't use them.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By brian lawrence on Monday, May 23, 2016 - 11:50 pm:

Tore into my ol Fordor tonight after losing compression on cyl #3 on a tour last weekend. Sure enough, exhaust valve broke, not burnt. Looks like the head broke off where the 2 holes are for the lapping tool. Piston is fine, and cyl is not damaged. I think the pieces got sent into the exhaust manifold. Really dodged a bullet this time, and I drove it a while like this, yikes!! Valve job is next project.

Brian


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Tuesday, May 24, 2016 - 09:54 am:

Someone posted this photo a while back on the forum, busted piston from the wayward cast iron head of those two-piece steel stem and iron head Ford valves. You can see clearly the remains of the steel stem sticking up. The iron head went thru the piston.


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