Questions on older engine rebuild

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: Questions on older engine rebuild
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary London, Camarillo, CA on Sunday, May 22, 2016 - 04:16 pm:

I have a '15 short block that was rebuilt before I bought it. It has never been installed or run. It has a 26/27 crank that has been balanced, rods and mains turned at -.010 with new babbit. Valve seats were installed as well as adjustable lifters. The work appears to be well done. The lifters are the 2 wrench style however they do not just drop out, it seems like the adjusting bolts need to be removed to pull the lifters.

The valve seats do not sit flush with the deck of the block but do not interfere with the head gasket. Do I need to have it decked or is this a non-issue? The deck is true.

Is anyone familiar with this style of lifters? The adjustable lifters I have bought recently have not required disassembly to remove / install.


The crank has been balanced and has some residue on it that looks similar to what I get when I use the spray on crack checking dye, and it's apparent it is from before the crank was machined. The residue is light gray. Does magnifluxing leave a residue? Is the dye check as good as magniflux? The person that did the rebuild originally is no longer with us so I'm looking for clues. If I can't determine I will have it done.

The valves are standard diameter and I'd like to install larger valves. Do the valve seats need to be changed or is this just cutting or grinding the seats?

I have been told it has a Bill Rader touring cam. It's a late cam and I can tell it's been ground but I don't know anything about Bill's cam's. Does anybody know if they are good cams?

If I find I need to replace the crank and want to install a Scat is it reasonable or ridiculous to fit it .010 with Time saver? It seems like it would be a lot of work, but I don't know who would fit a crank to babbit someone else poured. I don't know if I will need to do this but would like to know what I'm up against if it's needed.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Sunday, May 22, 2016 - 04:25 pm:

Gary
If I was in your shoes I would install it as is.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George n Los Angeles CA on Sunday, May 22, 2016 - 04:32 pm:

Look and see if you can find 'EE' on the crank. The EE was the best Ford ever made for the T it is claimed. Plus points if it was balanced.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Gould, Folsom, CA on Sunday, May 22, 2016 - 04:36 pm:

Reason the seats don't sit flush with the block is because the rebuilder was careful to leave a lip to hold the bottom of the seat. That's a good thing. However, he should have decked the block afterwards.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kohnke Rebabbitting, Clare, Iowa on Sunday, May 22, 2016 - 05:41 pm:

If the seats are up, they should be surfaced with the top of the block, as it will build carbon.

If under the seat has a ledge sticking out, it should be blended in with a Die Grinder, to the valve port, as it will also build carbon, and mess up air flow.

You can't go bigger valves with those seats. The seats have to be chosen to fit the bigger valves.

Give use a lot of pictures of your motor, also of the Babbitt.

Herm.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Sunday, May 22, 2016 - 07:13 pm:

If it were mine, I would be sure no animals had built nests in it. Be sure the water and oil passages are clean and that the engine turns over and the valves open and close. If so, I would install it in the car and drive it. If after the engine is installed, you have a problem, then is the time to fix it. None of the above would be a problem in my way of thinking.

My motto is don't grind or replace anything unless it needs it. But if it is to be done, do it right. If the engine is apart, replace or repair everything you find which is bad.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ted Dumas on Sunday, May 22, 2016 - 09:24 pm:

I vote with Les. What I would likely do is to check the rod and main clearances and make sure they were well oiled. You have a good crank, new valves, pistons, lifters, cam etc and apparently a job well done.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Garrison - Rice Minnesota on Sunday, May 22, 2016 - 09:53 pm:

No, magnetic particle inspection (magna-flux) using a wet suspension leaves no residue.

Dye Penetrant developer is normally white and there's a good chance you'll see traces of the penetrant that would be green that may fluoresce or red.

Dry magnetic particle powder, which is usually done with probes and wouldn't work all that great with a shaft is usually red or fluorescent green, dry powder.

In my opinion the best way to check a crankshaft for cracks is definitely wet suspension magnetic particle inspection (Magna-flux).

Just for the record the proper nomenclature is "magnetic particle inspection"; "Magna-flux" is a brand name. It's like calling facial tissue "Kleenex".


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary London, Camarillo, CA on Sunday, May 22, 2016 - 11:13 pm:

Les (and others); I'm inclined the same; overall it looks good.I took everything apart so I could check the clearances, change the valve spring retainers (it has repops, I think I have enough originals somewhere) and lap the valves. Everything is very clean, it's apparent the block was tanked. There is a nice radius on the journals where they were ground. I figured I'd have the crank mag'd while its out, and if the recommendation was to deck the block I'd have it cleaned up. Thinking about the carbon buildup, it will make it easier to clean in the future if I go ahead and have that done. I cannot feel a lip or shoulder where the bottom of the valve seats meet the shoulder but I can see it, so that part looks good.


The thrust surface of the crank has cleaned up. The only other concern I have is the rear flange of the crank is smooth. I'm going to put it in the block and check it for run-out before taking it in for the mag check. Should I have a light cut taken on the inside center section so it is not flush all the way across or leave it if the runout is good? Seems like since the transmission shaft is not flat all the way across it's OK as-is, but figured I'd ask.

Herm; I've taken some pictures but I'm at work and cannot post them yet (they've not transferred to my work PC).


Because this is a spare short block I don't have any plans to install it in the near future, I just want to have it ready in case I need it.

Should I use regular assembly lube for the journals and rings or something else?

Is there a spray on product to protect the bare metal surfaces?

I was thinking about shrink-wrapping it but am concerned that may promote rust. Any ideas on wrapping or packaging it for storage on my shelf?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Sunday, May 22, 2016 - 11:49 pm:

Gary
All sounds fair. A suggestion, keep your eyes open and round up the rest of the engine and assemble it completely. Won't take up much more space and you can drop it in easily!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Monday, May 23, 2016 - 11:22 am:

Whatever you have done to the block, be sure to ask about the effects on the main bearings. Sometimes if the block is to be hot tanked, you will need to re-pour the mains.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank van Ekeren (Australia) on Monday, May 23, 2016 - 05:48 pm:

Gary
Definitely get that block decked, any metal of sharp edges like the valve seat sitting to high will give hot spots in the combustion chamber, pre-ignition would be the first problem well before any carbon build up.


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