Sorry in advance if this is a common post. I ran a search and could not find anything although I may have not searched correctly.
Either way... my father has asked that I sell his 1922 Centerdoor T for him. I'm trying to find a baseline for values but cant seem to find too many of these. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Disclaimer- my opinion- if I am going to make the purchase.. Others may feel differently. Not trying to start a skirmish.
$4500. If it runs. Less to much less if it is a rust bucket.
If the doors sag because the wood is bad (centerdoor) - deduct $1000.
If the car is currently running on a strong magneto- add $12-1500.
If the car is currently running on a distributor or other non-Ford ignition system- deduct $500. (This is my value- you may feel different)
If the car is restored-- add $2000 more or less depending on quality of work & current condition.
Deduct $???? if not a FORD T color- unless you really like the color.
Ruckstell rear end or Warford trans- add $1500 to $2500.
Safety glass? add $300+ or - .
New tires? add $1000 + or -.
Rear axle rebuilt? If yes- add $500. If no deduct $500.
There are other features that can add or detract from the value. A PHOTO and list of extras would help.
Doug, If you will add some photos and descriptions of what work, if any, has been done on the T it will go a long way in determining what the car might be worth. There are perfectly restored to average drivers to complete rust buckets still out there and the price range varies.
The most important factor is the condition of the vehicle. Centerdoor bodies are built on a wooden frame and it's a major project to replace anything that's rotten. Is this a restored car that's in running condition?
Here are some price ideas worth considering: http://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG99.html
To get a grip on current prices you can also check eBay - the ones that sell, not the high asking prices that never gets any bids
Wow. Thanks for the responses. That was fast. Here's the only pic i have on hand...
Does have new tires, no ruck rear end. I'll have to check on the glass as Im not sure there.
Engine, drive train and brakes were all gone through and repaired or signed off by a local model T mechanic. Exterior paint is not perfect but is in pretty good condition. Interior is in good condition. Not new but very little fading or wear.
Couldn't find any recently sold Centerdoors at ebay, though here's an example of a solid unrestored Model T Fordor in running condition: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1926-Ford-Model-T-/252327052675
And here's an example of a restored Model T Tudor: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1926-Ford-Model-T-na-/172118534011
In the Northwest a car like that would have an asking price of $8000 or so then take best offer, Don in Portland, OR.
If the wood is still in good shape and the framework of the body is still solid that would be a plus for any T sedan. The top also looks to have been replaced. Thats another plus.
I think it would bring at least $10.000 if you weren't in a hurry to sell it.
These cars are rarer than the Tourings and Roadsters and harder to restore than the open cars.
My opinion on the price of course.
I have heard that they are rarer but hadn't though about the restoration difficulty. I did fail to mention it has a new top although I'm not positive how long ago. I might try to swing by and take some better pictures later today. Thanks again for all the input.
Not a 1922. It looks like 1924 or 1925. The most obvious clue is that it has a radiator apron, not present before 1924. You can check a couple of things to confirm the model year.
1 Radiator height. Take this measurement of the core (shell opening):
1917-1923, just under 17"; 1924 & later, almost 18".
2 Hand brake quadrant (on the side of the frame). With four rivets, it's 1924 or earlier. With two rivets, 1925 or later.
It's very common for Model T's to be misidentified. That's sometimes due to confusion of the model year with the calendar year, and sometimes just because somebody remembers it wrong. It's nice to know the real model year, but but 1919-1925 Fords are so similar that the year doesn't matter in setting a value.
I'll add an obvious thought to Steves' comments. When you go to take more pictures get when engine number. You'll find it on the left (drivers) side of the engine stamped just above the water inlet.
Post the number here and we can date the engine. Of course it may not be the original engine.......
I am pretty sure that 1923 was the last year for the Centerdoor sedan.
Some pictures of the interior would be good, a few underneath the car, close up of the top etc. will help a LOT.
I'm going to try and grab some pictures after work today. I may try to get a video of it starting up and running as well.
I did get a little more info on the rims/tires. They were removed, sandblasted and powder coated then reinstalled while the engine and drive train were being tuned up about a year ago.
According to my dad it was "restored" prior to his purchase but I'm not sure as to the extent. It's on a lift at the moment so I can get plenty of pictures underneath as well.
My computer must be messed up. I don't see a radiator apron. It's a low radiator
Bill Harpers' comment prompted me to look on Bruce McCalleys book and see when the Centerdoor was discontinued. To my surprise, it's not mentioned. In the Production Statistics section starting on page 461 there are figures covering years 1908-1919 for Touring, Roadster,Coupe, Towncar, Landaulet, Sedan, Delivery, Truck, Chassis, and Ambulance. 1919-1927 lists Tudor and Fordor.
I guess a Centerdoor is technically a Sedan and also is technically a Tudor, but I would expect to see them listed separately. Can anyone shed some light on this?
The Fordor was introduced in late '22 and was produced alongside the Centerdoor, which was discontinued in June of '23 and replaced with the Tudor. From then on, the term "Sedan" disappeared and it was "Tudor" and "Fordor" from then on. Up to the introduction of the Tudor, when Ford referred to the "Sedan," it was the body style that we call the "Centerdoor."
The Centerdoor was never produced with the 1924 style high radiator. Maybe the radiator apron from a high radiator was available at the time of restoration and was fitted just because it looks good? ;)
Here's a reference from the online encyclopedia, Henry: http://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/1921-25H.htm " The Centerdoor Sedan continued until about June 1923 and was replaced with a new two door Sedan. The Coupe continued in the 1922 pattern as well until June and was then replaced with a new design based on the Tudor Sedan."
We have a late Centerdoor (basket case body) with a '24 engine in it. It sat outside the previous owners shed for 50 years after the steering "over centered". :-)
Doug, you're not interested in it?
The centerdoor was built till late 22 and early 23
I have one that had a 23 title.
His car is low radiator without apron. Look close.
Do you still have your 14? That was a nice car ( as was the 27). I would like to make the FL tour sometime. Work still gets in the way.
I don't see a splash apron, only a shadow. Center doors (actually called "sedans") were done by June of 1923 when the foredoor came out.
I have a '22 centerdoor also and I'm 1.5 hrs north of you. I may be interested in your car. Would you send me a P.M. with your contact information when you have time? thanks
I love the car Duey but my garage is pretty full of projects and my wife would be none too happy.
Sent you a pm with my contact info Les.
I'll have some more pics up in the a.m. Thanks for all the input guys.
You guys may be right. That could be a shadow and not a radiator apron. If that's the case, I take it all back. With the car lit from the rear like that it's hard to tell.
Low radiator Centerdoor it is
The 24 and 25 T Coupes and Sedans Have a vent on top of the cowl. The low cowl closed cars don't have the cowl vent I don't think. That is the clear difference between the low cowl cars and the later high cowl cars. The car that Doug Donovan has is a low cowl Center door sedan no newer than early 23.
I don't see a radiator apron on this Center door. It has the usual thin strip that's on the low radiator shells.
Nothing less than $10,000 us centerdoor owners need to stick together!!!!
As promised here is a link to more detailed pictures and a link to a video of the engine starting and running. I would have uploaded the pictures here but there are 45 of them and a size limit. We could only find one flaw on the entire car which is a crack in the rear window. Pictures pretty much speak for themselves... looks like it just rolled off the line to me
Whoa, nice car! I wish I had the money and room for it, but I don't. Hopefully you and Les will come to a mutually acceptable price. Good luck to you both!
Here’s one for sale on eBay now. Starting bid is $7,000
I just saw that last night. Will be interesting to see what it goes for. I was told by someone out of Texas who appeared very knowledgeable not to let it go for less then 15k.
As old cars go, a Model T's "value" is in the "fun" you will have with them. Conversely, if Dad had an Auburn
speedster, it may be a hoot to own and drive, but demand and collector status makes if have an "investment value"
that most T's just don't have (for various reasons).
That said, the best plan (in my opinion) is to learn what the best venues for finding a buyer are, and get a good
idea what similar cars have sold for in recent years, and let potential buyers haggle with you to a price you and
Dad can live with.
I cringe when people get advice in the form of "Don't let it go for less than .... ", as it sets the seller up for a lot
of grief in high expectations. I have seen many instances where sellers hold to some number "some guy" told them
and they just feel beat up by prospective buyers' offers and resentful and ultimately "taken" when they do finally
come down to a place where buyers are offering.
Bottom line .... ask a lot of questions and be realistic about what you have and what the market will bear.
I definitely don't have my mind set on a price yet so there wont be much disappointment. I had two interested parties one felt the 15k was a fair price but decided he was not going to expand his collection at the time. Another didn't necessarily disagree with the valuation but also didn't want to spend quite that much.
One of the better ideas I have heard(in my opinion) is to simply list it on ebay with a reserve and see what people bid to get a feel for the market.
Worth is always determined by the buyer, never the seller. This is proven daily at auctions.
You just need the right buyer(s).
most recent sale I could fine was in Kansas about a month ago.. sold for 12,500. was a 21 center door.
I want to augment what Burger said about advice from friends, family members, acquaintenances, etc.
I once saw a '17 roadster near Macon, MS, that had been innocently advertised in the Memphis paper as a '12. When my brother and I got there, we were a little bummed it wasn't a '12, but decided to thoroughly enjoy the day.
The lady that owned the car had been given it in a divorce settlement; the car was residing in the barn of a friend of her ex husband's. The car wasn't "in the way", but when I asked the farmer (the friend of the owner's ex husband) if he wanted to buy the car, he quickly said, "Oh, no. I have more than enough mechanical things around the farm to keep running."
After about 5 hours, we had the roadster running on battery; the mag was not working. You wouldn't have believed the amount of blue/gray smoke filling that barn, and that's after we put new non-detergent oil into the engine!
After a while, I asked the owner how much money she wanted for the car; I figured that since it was a '17, and not a '12 advertised for $10,000 in the Memphis paper, she'd recognize the error and ask for less than $10,000.
"Oh, a couple of friends told me to not take less than $10,000 for it." Now, remember this was in March of 1989, and this car needed a rebuild on the engine, and maybe more; I'm no appraiser, but I believe that any member of this forum who might've been in the seller's position at the time, with that car, would've swallowed whole an offer in the $4,000 range.
Realizing that there would be no purchase that day, I said to the lady, as kindly as I could, "Yes, I understand how you feel. Many well-meaning friends and family members will frequently suggest a price that they're unaware of, is above what comparable cars sell for", I said.
Continuing, I suggested to her, "It might help you, in determining what price to ultimately accept for the car, to go back to those friends who recommended a hard-deck of $10,000, and offer the car to them for $8,000."
Taken aback, the seller said, "Why would I do that?", to which I responded, "I believe your friend(s), who would be happy to flip the car for $10,000, netting them $2,000, would reconsider their initial conception of what the car is worth, and should be sold for no less than $10,000. In other words, they'd back pedal because they simply don't know the going market parameters for this type of antique car."
"What if they accept?", she asked. "If so, I'll give you the $2,000 difference", I said.
My brother and I had a wonderful time T'ing that day. I left my contact information with the seller, but never heard from her again.
I'd like to think the car found a good home.
Well... that is a nice story however I'm not sure how it helps lol
From what I have gathered over the past week or so there are really only two ways to get a value on a car like this. First way is to ask people. Second way is to actually sell it. I've moved on to the second so I'll let ya guys know how I fare
Take the car to the Homecoming in Richmobd, Indiana, and possibly to the MTFCI in July.
The car will be exposed to the best and largest group of prospective buyers. Consider Hershey in October.
I believe you will get close to knowing the real-world selling price of your car.
The C-door on eBay from my May 25th posting, just sold for $8,256
Looks like a very nice car, I would ask $10,750 and see if you can't get $10,000 for it. You might want to ask more, you can always come down. Unless you need to turn it quickly, I wouldn't take less than $10,000.
Another C-door on eBay with 23 minutes left. Price is $6,500
High bid $6,500.
Did not meet reserve.
I did see yours Chuck congrats on the sale. I have mine posted for 12,000 at the moment which I think is reasonable considering the differences. Received a local cash offer for $10,500.
I received quite a few requests for the block number(5945786). Does the production date of the engine impact the value much? Appears to be a May of 1922 production from what I can find.
Values for these cars seem to be all over the place. Most of the inflation seems to come from people who are either A) unfamiliar with buying and selling antique cars, other than watching Mecum and Barrett-Jackson on TV, or B) very sentimentally attached to the car, because it was Dad's car or something along those lines. It's hard to say what it's going to bring. In my adventures in buying T's, I've learned to be patient. If I don't buy this one, there will be another one. With 15 million built, I doubt there will be a shortage. As far as selling, it kind of depends on how it's advertised and how motivated the seller is. More exposure might result in a bidding war between two buyers, driving the cost up. It's really hard to say for sure, which is kind of fun and infuriating at the same time.
Doug: I did not buy that car, was just watching C-doors on sale. I have a 1919 C-door that I may sell someday. Looking at your car it seems to be in excellent shape and should bring from $10-$12K? I would like to think closer to the $12K. But it seems like there are a number of very high priced post 1920 cars for sale on eBay?
I think motor numbers make a difference to a purist. If I was going to spend TOP dollar for a T, I would like everything original (match numbers, no alternator, no distributor, 6V, etc. My C-door is pretty much original; however I think mine is in the range of $8K? But I have a touring made from two 1926 cars, so I wouldn’t expect its value to be as high as a all matching numbers car.
It just all depends on what any individual personally likes.
I think you should get close to $12K for your car. Looks really nice. So best of luck in selling it.