Insurance for a Young Driver

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: Insurance for a Young Driver
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ryan Fenrich on Tuesday, May 24, 2016 - 09:24 pm:

Apologies for starting a thread for something that has been brought up over the years, but after several Google searches and dead ends, I thought this thread could organize all the answers of the past 10 years.

Long story short, I am 18 going on 19 (in July). By the time I get a T (if all goes according to plan), I will be 19 going on 20. Insurance companies for don't seem to offer insurance policies for antique cars if you are under 25. However, I have heard through the grapevine that if I am on a policy with someone like my Dad, etc. that it will work. One thing to note is that I live in Canada, where these exceptions seem to have a lower chance of happening than in the USA.

I've looked at different options such as Intact, Hagerty, Grundy, and BrokerLink. Can anyone who has had experience in this field (whether in the USA or Canada) please give me some guidance? Am I a lost cause? It will be quite upsetting if my Model T dream can't come true based on an age requirement, so I am willing to jump through all the hoops to find that one loophole!

Thanks!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ted Dumas on Tuesday, May 24, 2016 - 10:17 pm:

Have you talked with them one on one? I notice you did not mention J.C Taylor. It will make a big difference if the Model T is not your daily driver.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John F. Regan on Tuesday, May 24, 2016 - 10:51 pm:

In the USA Hagerty was the first to step forward and insure young drivers so long as they had a driver's license and were part of a household that had antique car coverage. In short you had to be living at home but at that time the others would not insure folks that were under 25. I know about this because I personally took on the job of getting the "official" statement by insurance carriers with regard to young drivers because my chapter of the MTFCI was going to sponsor a new award called the Jimmy Walker Award which can only be won by driver's 19 and under. It was a move to really get things going for young folks. That was a long time ago and a recent President of the MTFCI was a former winner of the Jimmy Walker award. I always mention Hagerty because they were the first and almost the only company at that time that stood up to be counted with regard to insuring young people. They agreed with our sentiment that for their business to have a future the club had to have a future too and that meant young folks and they put it in writing on their letterhead for us. Their only limitation was that the young driver had to be part of a household. A very reasonable position in my mind.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Aaron Griffey, Hayward Ca. on Tuesday, May 24, 2016 - 10:59 pm:

I have had J.C.Taylor for 30 years.
You must be 25 or over to be a driver cover by them.
I know, my 23 year old has wanted to drive my MG since she was 18.
Now she has lost interest, probably because she could never drive it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Mottashed on Wednesday, May 25, 2016 - 12:01 am:

Hi Ryan - I hope you're successful. These putt-putts can be a lot of fun! Our chapter in Ontario (Canada) has investigated this at various times. Over the last 7yrs or so Intact has been the only option we've found, and at times they seemed to be out of the market too.

In 2007 I bought a cosmetically challenged but mechanically sound '22 Roadster for my 17 yr old son to drive on tours. Intact (then ING) was the only option available for coverage at antique rates. It only worked if I owned the car. They stipulated he could not drive my other T which was about twice the value of "his" so I believe they were sensitive about the value at risk. I offered to stipulate that he would not tour without me being on the same tour but they didn't choose to add that. Also note that I did not have anything insured with them when my broker approached them about taking over the 2 T's.

Good luck!

... Fred


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Wednesday, May 25, 2016 - 12:26 am:

Ryan
I see you live in Edmonton. In Calgary there is a agency called "Competition Insurance ". I think they may also be in Edmonton. They represent Hagaerty. I have found them to be quite accommodating.
Our club "Foothills Model T Club" has been around since 1972. We encourage Edmonton people too!!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Wrenn-Monroeville OH on Wednesday, May 25, 2016 - 08:29 am:

Ryan, I don't know if State Farm is offered up in Canada, but I'd try them. Reasonable rates, very flexible in insuring it during "active season" vs. "storage season", etc. I'm willing to be they'll insure you. I actually had them when I was 17 years old with my first car. Welcome to the affliction-addiction-insanity..whatever you want to call it, it's just plain fun!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Wednesday, May 25, 2016 - 08:49 am:

There are millions of teen drivers, which means there are millions of teens with vehicle insurance coverage of some kind. My guess would be that the age ban is a feature of antique insurance companies, and that regular coverage is available from non-specialty companies at a higher cost. Whether the higher cost is reasonable or extortionate is another question.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Kossor - Kenilworth, NJ on Wednesday, May 25, 2016 - 01:01 pm:

John, Thank you for your efforts with Hagerty. That is one reason I went with them and my Son will soon be taking advantage of their policy provisions next year.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Don Kirtley on Wednesday, May 25, 2016 - 01:37 pm:

I'm with John, my grandson has been driving my cars (Ts)sence he was sixteen he is now twenty three. No problem with HAGERTY.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Aaron frazer on Wednesday, May 25, 2016 - 01:43 pm:

I really get what your saying I'm 21 and because I'm under the bar limit I cant get those special insurances either. I looked around till I found a local insurance that would insurance me. No one wanted to insurance me because no one knew how to insurance 17 year old at the time with a car that old. Until I hit that age mark I've been paying twice what my dad is for his.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Derek Kiefer - Mantorville, MN on Wednesday, May 25, 2016 - 02:04 pm:

I bought my first T when I was 17, and it was a hassle then. I'm not sure how it is now, but I have several years to figure it out again...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dean Kiefer - Adams, MN on Wednesday, May 25, 2016 - 03:38 pm:

Derek, those years will be here before you know it. It's a good thing we never had an issue back when you were 17 because I am not sure you were covered?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Craig Anderson, central Wisconsin on Wednesday, May 25, 2016 - 06:55 pm:

Hagerty may be slightly higher than some other companies but I'm happy to subsidize their efforts toward attracting and helping young people in the car hobby....... :-)
I also look forward to their bimonthly magazine.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ryan Fenrich on Wednesday, May 25, 2016 - 06:58 pm:

Thanks everyone for the input. It gives me some guidance on what to do now! Seems like Hagerty is my best bet (via a 'middle' firm).

Les, I was actually thinking of contacting the club (once I made sure that I could go ahead with owning one) to see if there were any roadsters looking for a new home!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Eyre on Wednesday, May 25, 2016 - 07:45 pm:

I have driven Model Ts all my life some of which was probably before I turned 16. When my parents went on tours they went with State Farm. Pretty sad that we want younger folks involved and the company's we spend thousands of dollars to insure our collections with won't insure our children.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Les Schubert on Thursday, May 26, 2016 - 05:23 pm:

Ryan
Actually there is quite nice 26-7 roadster advertised last night at the meeting looking for a new home!!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John E Cox on Friday, May 27, 2016 - 02:20 pm:

I would be very careful when letting your children drive your precious car.
When I asked my brother the insurance adjuster what to buy my 16 year old son for his first car he said buy something big so that he would be less likely to get hurt when he has his accident.
He said that they all have an accident. I just couldn't believe that my son would have an accident.
He did. Two in fact,
Both his fault.
i have a friend who was riding as a passenger with his son when his son totaled my friends early Porsche Speedster.
We all think the best off our children but remember that the brain is not fully developed until your early twenty's.
There is a reason for the high rates.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bryan Grube on Friday, May 27, 2016 - 03:38 pm:

Hagerty I think is the only one under 25, except maybe chubb. Try them I've heard good things. I have JC Taylor, so growing up I couldn't drive my parents old cars either. When I got my own old cars I guess I stuck with them.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker in Sumter SC on Friday, May 27, 2016 - 06:07 pm:

Ryan,

I either missed it (that happens more than I like) or you did not mention the following: Are you are still living at home and going to school or college and still under your parents automobile insurance? Or are you our on your own and no longer eligible for your parent's insurance? Do you planned to use the T as your only car [I normally would not recommend that]? Or do you have a normal daily driver and your T would be mostly for antique car tours and events?

Your answers to those questions can make a difference in what may be available and what it might cost.

As Steve Jelf mentioned above – lots of teen drivers are insured. Some through their parent's policy and some from their own policy.

I used to drive my 1930 & 1931 Model A Fords quite a bit. In the early 1980s I could not find an insurance company (a regular one or one that specialized in Antique cars) that would offer both comprehensive and liability insurance on an antique car that was going to be used daily for to-from work, trips, etc. There may have been such a company but I never found it back then.

So I purchased the liability insurance and I self-insured my car for comprehensive & collision insurance. If it had been a Rolls Royce or for that matter even a high dollar restored Model A -- I could not have taken that large of a risk. But in my case I was blessed with a good job and normally I had a more modern daily driver in addition to my Model A. I was fortunate that I owned the car out right so there was not any requirement by a mortgage company to have comprehensive & collision in addition to the liability insurance. And when I was looking for a small used pickup truck in 1982, I compared prices on the used Ford Ranger and used Chevy S-10s. But when I found out that I could purchase a Model A pickup for around the same price – that was an easy choice for me to make. I purchased it. If it had been stolen or totaled by someone without any insurance etc. then I would have been out the entire cost. But with any used car as it gets to be older and is not yet a collectable -- at some point it usually makes sense to drop the comprehensive and collision insurance (see: https://www.google.com/#q=when+should+you+drop+collision+on+your+auto+insurance ).

So depending on your budget, you may be able to purchase an older restoration and self insure it. I would think many of the speedsters without any fancy overheads or original bodies would be a likely candidates for self insurance. There was a great article about a “low bucks” speedster in one of the national T magazines. Stock chassis, wooden body, but very low cost to build. But they are not a likely candidates for comfortable driving in the winter in Canada. And as John Cox pointed out – many younger drives will have an accident. A Model T speedster does not have many of the safety features the modern cars have. That is actually why one person I know will not let their child drive their old air cooled VW. Their child has had several accidents in more modern cars where the airbags saved them from serious injury.

Note depending on the cost of insurance -- you may be able to purchase 10 year old Toyota etc, postpone driving the T and save enough money to purchase a much nicer T.

Good luck with your research. I’m sure you can find a “win-win” that will let you have a T, with adequate insurance, that you can enjoy.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ryan Fenrich on Saturday, May 28, 2016 - 01:07 am:

Hap,

Thank you for the very detailed and informative response. I will answer a few things you have asked.

My daily driver is a 2003 Ford Explorer. It does me well, and has given my family 10 great years of service, and myself only for the last 3 and counting. I plan to use my T for jaunts to friend's houses, the golf course where I work (driving an antique vehicle to work seems to be a whole other issue on its own), and joy rides on a nice evening to get ice cream and coffee with a SO. I think realistically it would be driven around 3 times a week. On a stretch of nice days, maybe more. On a stretch of rainy days, definitely less. I am living at home with my parents for the remainder of my degree (3-4 years). If that means selling a T after that time to move out, so be it, although I think I have planned well enough to be able to move out and keep the T if I do get one. My current insurance is myself listed as a secondary driver (my dad is still main driver).

The self insuring is something that is completely foreign to me. I briefly Googled it while writing this post and will look at it closer later on. Part of my plan with a T is the notion of "the money is not gone, just tied up". Another part of my plan is that a T would not come this year. I am working a lot this summer to make sure I get enough to allow me to comfortably spend on a nice T.

John,

As a young driver who spends a lot of time with young driving friends, it is no shock that we pay more for insurance and more accidents happen to us. I don't blame it on inexperience. Recklessness, carelessness, having fun at inappropriate times and simply not caring about safety contribute more than anything. I had a very close call with my dad three years ago. I was inexperienced driving on the icy roads, made an inexperienced decision while in the midst of sliding out, and still (narrowly) managed to not hit anything. The chain reaction of panicked cars was caused by a reckless young guy who didn't give a damn for the people behind him. I am fortunate enough to not have been in any accidents yet (although I hit a friend's car while parking. We got out, looked at each other, laughed, and carried on as if nothing happened), and I think the Model T will teach me even more care on the road, especially when your life is not as safe as it is with modern cars. Safety with a T has always been a concern of mine, and my mouth is still watering as I lust after them and trying to make it work!


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