As far as actual ownership of running - driving - registered Model T vehicles ?
My guess would be California based on population.
My guess would be Michigan.
any one that is too far away for me to go fetch one
Michigan is MTFCI county, 15 chapters listed: http://www.modelt.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=5&Itemid=15
MTFCA is more west coast oriented, 22 chapters in California listed: http://www.mtfca.com/clubpages/chapters.htm
But the total numbers in those states - noone knows. Dan Treace checked with the DMV of Florida in 2003 and found 515 1909-27 T's with a current registration among a lot of street rods with non Ford VIN:s. The numbers of unregistered cars in storage would be impossible to know.
Years ago when I purchased a 1914 touring, I wondered how many were around. So I started counting. Here in the San Francisco East Bay area I got 14 1914 Model Ts of all body styles ( no earlier, no later cars just 1914) within a 20 mile radius. Could have missed one or two. Point is there are a lot of Model Ts in California, always was and maybe the percentage of those cars surviving has even increased.
I know it ain't Georgia. No Model T club affiliates and Craigs List postings are scarce for cars or parts. Interestting to me as FL is a great State for T's and NC and SC are good States and even AL is more active than GA.
I am in Fitzgerald ....
I'm in Alpharetta, GA
I'm in Rice, MN
This evening I'll be in Sauk Rapids, MN for a couple hours.
I agree with Jim. Logic says California. The population of CA as a percentage of total U.S. population over the years:
It seems reasonable to think Ts are similarly distributed nationwide. Note that the next most populous state, Texas, currently stands at 8.55%.
Too bad there's no data to make a determination.
But back then, California population was much smaller, Ts were were the population was, so I'll bet even with the larger population today, there are more existing farther east.
I am guessing California for a few reasons. Large population and resultant original purchases is one. Climate that does not destroy them is another. Next, I think the WW2 scrap drives may not have been as aggressive on the west coast, due to the distances involved in getting the scrap to the mills in the East. Lastly, I think the size of the state, its climate and disposable income of average residents says California is a likely place to find a model T. I am always amazed at the T's that pop up in our area that no one locally knew about. Fifteen million is a large number. We will never know how many are left but I bet 50K or better in some form or another, not counting bogus 23 T buckets.
quite a few around here in town and maybe more.
Most of these if not all do not belong to clubs
or visit forums, gives me reason that there are
more running around than we think. I'm probably
one too - no clubs no car shows just drive it.
Talk about shows; why do we have to pay to enter?
How come the people have to pay at a football
game? Then I count about 15 Model A's in town &
we got one too.
I think if the question is how many Model T Fords that get driven every year the most likely state winners would be Michigan, Minnesota, or Ohio. There might be more Model T's existing in California, but they don't seem to tour as much.
Texas and California were much less populated in the time prior to WWII. There is something about Minnesota and other northern Midwest states that causes old things to be cherished and saved for generations that you do not see in other places.
A bassackwards method for a guess.
An old "rule of thumb" is the estimate that about one percent of old cars survive. While I doubt that number is accurate, or that Model T fit into this pigeon hole, let's go with it. That would give us around 150,000 remaining. With 12 percent of the population, a proportionate number of Ts would be 18,000 for CA.
Only problem, this makes no account for Model T outside the U.S..
Oh well, back to morning coffee.....
The State of Insanity!!!
Tony Cimorela [spelling??] compiled list of T's states,and owners?? Bud. If i remember right i think Mich was the top and Ill another high number?
Minnesota used to have a lot of early automobiles including brass Model T Fords but I would say more have left the state over the past 65 years than have remained as the antique automobile hobby blossomed.
In my opinion, the current distribution of antique automobiles across various states does not really have much to do with where the automobiles were originally sold and owned. Many of the early automobiles currently in California are not native to California. It has to do with the hobby, not where the cars were originally sold.
Royce, I'm hurt. We have a lot of T's touring in California, it is just difficult for us to get back east for their tours. Let's see how many California cars show up in Albuquerque next month.
Royce's comment about "There is something about Minnesota and other norther states ...." reminded me of something. Back in the 50's and 60's, when a lot of Model T's were being restored for the first time, it seemed to always be an over the winter project. My father's 1918 Model T was restored over the winter of 1960/1961 in a garage heated with a wood stove. We would visit friends around the area who also were restoring Model T's, and it was always a winter project, usually in an uninsulated garage that was heated with a wood stove, oil burner, etc. I think a lot of Model T's in the snow belt were restored as something to do during the long cold winters before 100 channel TV
"Which U.S. state has the largest number of Model T Fords?" This subject, or how many total Model T's are around, has come up more times than, "Should I use a water pump, or not?"
Constantine, you didn't specify roadworthy Model T's, or all Model T's, roadworthy or not. I don't think there is an absolute way, nor anybody with the time or stamina to attempt to be absolute.
Attempts have been made in the past using many methods but if one could get a figure from at least the two clubs, without overlapping information from dual membership members, that would be a start. Or course, I'm assuming that you are not including T buckets or any Model T without its original type engine. This method, of course, would not figure in the number of roadworthy T's owned by owners who are not members of either club, of which, I am sure there are many. Getting registration information from all 50 states with all their different laws, would probably be impossible.
One question that might be simpler to define would be which individual club chapter (not to include dual MTFCA and MTFCI charters) has the most T's in its membership? Any one want to venture a guess: Albuquerque 59 T's owned by 40 members; Houston 97 T's owned by 68 members (including two out-of-state members, but not including members who didn't report their cars).
According to the 2015 membership directory, the Casual T's of Michigan has 125 T's owned by 74 members.
"Dan Treace checked with the DMV of Florida in 2003 and found 515 1909-27 T's with a current registration..."
With this info you could make an educated rough guess on other states and the US as a whole. All you need is the total amount of registered cars in Florida in 2003 or the population of Florida in 2003.
You could also make a guess as to how many non-registered Ts there are for every registered.
And geez...of course I wasn't looking for an exact number.
At 515, I think Florida has more registered Ts than all Australian states combined!
Constantine, I wouldn't doubt that Florida, or most other more populated U.S. states have more registered T's than all of Australia combined, and you could add in New Zealand, too. My family made a trip to Australia and New Zealand in 1964, and even then, I didn't see a single T. I saw lots of cars in the forties and fifties, but I only saw one car made before 1930, and I saw it only because it belonged to a member of a family we were visiting in New Zealand. We only toured the Sydney area in Australia, so that may account for the lack of sightings. On the other hand, my wife and I visited some friends of her in England in 2008 and I remember seeing several pre 1930 cars. One large brass era car, passed us like we were sitting still.
Did that math somewhat and this is what I came up with, Tom Rootleib did a comparison from his business too of making Model T fenders!
The only data is old historical from Stern's book, 'Tin Lizzie', he quoted the insurance stat firm of RL Polk survey of 1948 found 49,869 Model T's registered on the road in the 48 US states.
One would have to compile the listings of all 50 US DMV records for licensed and registered Model Tís, I did that in FL, and got a print out from the state of over 5,000 Fords for the years 1909 to 1927. But a lot of them were '1923' roadsters with modern VIN numbers, or Ďstreet rodsí ...so coming up with a valid number is tough.
Extrapolated from FL data, with population of 15.5mil, found that 1 registered "Model T Ford" for each 30,000 persons. But FL is a state with income for car hobby, other states may not have the same amount of antique Fords per capita.
So, USA population is 309mil.....one T for say each 50,000 capita would make it 60,000 licensed and registered Model T's out there.... a bit more than in 1948 perhaps!
By Tom Rootlieb on Tuesday, September 10, 2013 - 06:47 pm:
[Mfg. of replacement Ford T sheet metal parts] We have never kept track of numbers. Our company is 40 yrs. old this year and we can somewhat guess by recollection. The number of employees has varied from 3 to 18. My guess is that we have sold 3 to 4 thousand dropped- axles and sold 4 to 5 thousand Model T speedster kits. Some years ago we were looking at similar data and we realized that we had put a new hood and 4 new fenders on a minimum of 40,000 cars. At the same time we put our best guess on how many cars survived, intact and in pieces at 200,000. While that number may seem big, it's only a 1.3% survival rate. So we have at least another 100 yrs. of work to do. Back in 1973, when I was 24 and we were just starting out, my father and I were talking one day and he told me not to count too much on this business, because in 10 years there wouldn't be any old cars left out there and we would both be looking for a job. I'll be 65 on my next birthday.
the dustbowl blew a lot of them west to Ca. and littered the trail with parts all points in between
I've never wondered why old cars in the western half of Texas and Oklahoma, as well as the central states and every state west through the mountains to the west coast, survived with so little rust. Its simple, no humidity; very little rust, but I would have never believed until the last two decades that I have been on this Forum, that so many cars survived in Minnesota and Wisconsin. I understand these two states are not on a humid coast, but how did all the cars that I've seen come out of these states survive the WWII scrape drives when most other states were "picked clean"?
I think the amount of surviving cars has to do with the space / ability to store it over long periods of time. Here in Massachusetts not many people in the urban areas would pay to store a old car that had little value. In the 80s here south of Boston Ts seemed very popular at the car shows/ parades but now not so much. Hopefully they are just in the back of the garage or moved with the population shift.
Welcome to the forum Brian, nice to see another person from Ma., we have quite a few here.
The Santa Clara Valley Model T Ford Club (Califunny) roster from 2014 lists over 100 members, and over 170 model Ts. Most of those cars are drive-able. And I know of a few more Ts not listed by their owners.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2
"So, USA population is 309mil.....one T for say each 50,000 capita would make it 60,000 licensed and registered Model T's out there.... a bit more than in 1948 perhaps!"
Thanks Dan, good info. And that doesn't include unregistered cars, which could add another 10%(?) or more.
Even if only half of 1% of Ts are still around, that's 75,000 cars.
The obvious answer is the State of Madness, largely centered in Loon County. Duh !