Dark, all but black, green for 1909 - 1910 T's?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: Dark, all but black, green for 1909 - 1910 T's?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Sunday, May 29, 2016 - 08:27 am:

The color in Bruce's book is sort of a light British racing green, so that is not right. Does anyone have an accurate paint formula for the correct very dark green Ford used in 1910?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Sunday, May 29, 2016 - 08:33 am:

Not sure if this will help or not...

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/411944/427299.html?1394110592

http://paintref.com/cgi-bin/colorcodedisplay.cgi?type=sample&ditzler=IM1017&syea r=1931&smanuf=Ford&smodel&sname=Brewster+Green&name=ford1931IM1017


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Sunday, May 29, 2016 - 09:36 am:

Mark,

Right, that thread didn't help. Model A Brewster Green is too light. The color of Bryan Ostergren's lovely unrestored '10 is correct, but we don't have a formula. Look at the black fenders and the green body - very hard to tell which one is black, and which is green. Here are some pictures Bryan sent to me about 6 years ago. The car is a delight to look at. FYI the same car used to belong to Kim Dobbins, and is seen in some photos in Bruce's book.
















Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith, Lomita, California on Sunday, May 29, 2016 - 01:38 pm:

Kim Dobbins car is green. Check with him.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peter Eastwood on Sunday, May 29, 2016 - 01:52 pm:

Royce, Bryan's car has been repainted twice in it's life time. It is now all black. The inside of the hood is original very, very, dark green. I was the third owner of that car.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Zibell, Huntsville, AL on Sunday, May 29, 2016 - 03:09 pm:

Have you checked here? http://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/P-R.htm#paint1 See if the paint shop can prepare a sample for color. Be aware, the color may change a little once it dries.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Zibell, Huntsville, AL on Sunday, May 29, 2016 - 03:10 pm:

Have you looked here http://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/P-R.htm#paint1 Be aware the color may change slightly once dry.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Kramer,Woodstock,Ontario,Canada on Sunday, May 29, 2016 - 03:49 pm:

Royce,The automotive parts suppliers /auto paint suppliers around here,have a type of scanning gun that gives them the colour on your car.They can then mix the paint colour you want.Maybe Bryan could get the colour scanned.I hope this helps.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Constantine on Sunday, May 29, 2016 - 04:29 pm:

Are people suggesting that after 100 years paint remains exactly the same shade as when it was new? Age, heat, sunlight does nothing at all?
Royce, just find or create an extremely dark green colour you're happy with.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Trevan - Australia on Sunday, May 29, 2016 - 04:59 pm:

Having the correct formular would be worthless unless you could get the soil pigment colour they used back then?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Sunday, May 29, 2016 - 05:19 pm:

Lexus has a color, "Midnight Pine", that is nearly black. Trouble is, it has pearl in it, but maybe an auto paint shop could have a batch mixed up without the pearl.

https://www.google.com/search?q=lexus+midnight+pine&biw=1280&bih=605&tbm=isch&tb o=u&source=univ&sa=X&sqi=2&ved=0ahUKEwiaoIHLmoDNAhURHlIKHbgQAVkQsAQIKg&dpr=1


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Sunday, May 29, 2016 - 05:34 pm:

Getting the correct shade of colors that were used 80-100 years ago is like chasing rabbits. You may get close to it but not quite.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob McDaniel(Indiana Trucks)Star City In on Sunday, May 29, 2016 - 07:03 pm:

Royce,

The scanning idea may be your best bet. I used the paint on the end of my gas tank on the 25 Indiana because it was inside the cab under the dash so it never got real hot or sun fade over its lifetime. The paint shop mixed up a small sample after it was scanned and I put a little on the old paint on the tank and it was real close but just a little lite compared to the original. I feel the paint would have darkened a little over the 80 some years and was very happy with the match. If you can get a sample, give it a try cause if it is not what you are looking for you can say you tried and move on to plan B. Only problem is, what is plan B?

Bob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Sunday, May 29, 2016 - 07:11 pm:

Larry,

You mean this one?



John Z - the MTFCA paint colors are just wrong. That green color is way too light. It probably went well with someone's Avocado appliances back in the 1970's. Here's an example painted in that color:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Peterson on Sunday, May 29, 2016 - 07:18 pm:

Hi Royce, I like red, Bob.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Harold Schwendeman - Sumner,WA on Sunday, May 29, 2016 - 08:00 pm:

Royce - This is probably pretty much a worthless comment but this discussion somehow reminds me of the dark green that Jaguar came out with when the XKE came out back in the '60's or whenever it was. Not the greatest car in the world, but I sure remember that beautiful dark green, especially the coupe. It almost looked black until you saw it in the sunshine.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith, Lomita, California on Sunday, May 29, 2016 - 08:21 pm:

Yeah Royce, that's it, in Kim's garage too!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith, Lomita, California on Sunday, May 29, 2016 - 08:23 pm:

The top photo looks like a Ford publicity photo. I recognize some of the people in it, and they are in many of Fords early photos.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Parker on Sunday, May 29, 2016 - 09:26 pm:

It was discussed in a previous thread in 2011. The Four Fords in a Ford.

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/179374/246909.html?1322753893

Ken in Texas


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen - Eastern Nebraska on Sunday, May 29, 2016 - 11:41 pm:

According to this June 1909 "Motor Age" article, Ford was switching to Brewster green for all bodies, including "guards, fenders and other fixtures in one color:"



The next question is, do we have a period description of Brewster green?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peter Eastwood on Monday, May 30, 2016 - 12:09 am:

In 1992 I purchased the 1910 touring, pictured above, that is now owned by Bryan Ostergren.
I spent a couple of days getting it ready to run. During that time, I had the hood off the car. The hood was sitting on end, out side my shop. It wasn't until the second day that the inside of the hood caught the sun light just right, and I realized it was green & not black. The color is so dark at first look it seems black, but it is definitely green. The rest of the car had been painted twice, but the inside of the hood had only one coat of paint.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen - Eastern Nebraska on Monday, May 30, 2016 - 12:44 am:

I looked at old papers and magazines, and there were many "Brewster Green" automobiles advertised between 1906-1910. Also wagons, slipeighs, even baby buggies. This suggests to me "Brewster green" was a standardized color, not brand or industry specific. Ford had already used "Brewster green on earlier models, such as the 60 inch sidetrack Model S and Model F listed below (don't ask me about the "French Broad Hustler" newspaper, I'm only posting what it said..... :-) ):



The most interesting article I found was this 1908 description for the new 1909 Rambler. "Dark Brewster green, black effect:"



So, was all "brewster green" paint dark with "black effect?" Or was this a newer or unique shade that Rambler was using"


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Constantine on Monday, May 30, 2016 - 04:40 am:

As interesting as they are, newspaper articles are not going to give Royce what he needs. We all already know it's a very dark green.

Royce, colours below get 25% darker one after another.

This color is called "Ford Brewster Green":
http://www.color-hex.com/color/26302d

Not dark enough?
http://www.color-hex.com/color/1c2421

Still not dark enough?
http://www.color-hex.com/color/121b18

And so on:
http://www.color-hex.com/color/0f1412

http://www.color-hex.com/color/0b0f0d

Could keep on going but I'll end with this very dark shade of green:
http://www.color-hex.com/color/080b09


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Constantine on Monday, May 30, 2016 - 04:44 am:

Go down those pages a bit to find a useful "Color Preview on Black Background", to compare the colour to 100% black.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John A Voss on Monday, May 30, 2016 - 08:20 am:

I have spent my entire adult life the graphics industry &
last 40 years collecting carriages --
Brewster GREEN is Black & Yellow ( the more yellow , the lighter
the green .. Chrome yellow works best ..

it's that simple -- jack


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mitch Owen on Monday, May 30, 2016 - 10:02 am:

Hi Royce,
Here is a photo of my '10 which still has the original "Green" color as noted on the build sheet. I'm not sure this will help much having faded over the last 106 years. When do you want to get these two old girls together?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Monday, May 30, 2016 - 10:40 am:

Mitch - I guess I forgot that you were right here - maybe the underside of your car's hood or the back side of the rear seat storage door could be color scanned?

I plan to drive my car to the club meeting Sunday, weather permitting.

Constantine those color charts are interesting. Is there a way to make it from that number to a can of paint?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Constantine on Monday, May 30, 2016 - 12:57 pm:

Royce, good question; there are websites that can try to match code colours to real paints but in this case I doubt you'll find an exact match. Colour codes websites allow you to experiment so you can better understand what you're looking for.

Once you know what you want you can try your luck on a website like this:

http://paintref.com/paintref/index.shtml

I did a quick search and found 1936 Graham colour "Berkshire Green". Then I searched for that with Google. Original paint chips are for sale so you can see colour in the flesh.

http://paintref.com/cgi-bin/colorcodedisplay.cgi?color=Berkshire%20Green&tditzler=IM1847&rows=50





http://www.autopaper.com/1936-graham-automobile-arco-paint-chips-original-half-sheet.php

http://www.autopaper.com/1936-graham-automobile-paint-chips-original.php

You could try ebay too.

Even if it's not quite correct you can perhaps work with your paint guy to go darker or greener, etc.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Val Soupios on Monday, May 30, 2016 - 01:15 pm:

My unrestored 1907 Autocar came from the factory in Brewster Green and the original color has turned to Black with absolutely no hint of green. When I removed the horn bracket I found a color that was more grey than green but was definitely dark. That area had never been exposed to sun so it must be pretty close to the original color. I can only describe it as dark grey with a green hue. Whether it is close to the color Ford called Brewster Green or not would be pure speculation but to me it clearly suggests that what they called Brewster Green back in the day was nothing like what we would consider it to be today.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Constantine on Monday, May 30, 2016 - 02:33 pm:

Looking at those paint chips above again, the Berkshire Green is wrong, too much of a blue-green. If the Rustic Green was darker (remove some white from the listed formula?) it would be very close to the green colour on Mitch's 10.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jeff Hood -Long Beach, California on Monday, May 30, 2016 - 10:57 pm:

That fender on Mitch's car looks like the color of an old file cabinet. Start there and add black.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jem Bowkett, Spalding United Kingdom on Tuesday, May 31, 2016 - 04:05 am:

Some 35yrs ago, a gent (long deceased whose name I would have to dig out of my archive) sent me a paint chip which he had matched from the original paint under the body plate of his 09. I had my local paint shop match it. PM me and I can mail you a chip.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith, Lomita, California on Tuesday, May 31, 2016 - 10:40 am:

Chevrolet trucks used Brewster Green for many years in the '30s and '40s. It was probably the most common color used for those trucks during that period. It probably would be too light for our T's however, but it is Brewster Green!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Tuesday, May 31, 2016 - 11:16 am:

The name of the color is not what I want to discuss. I need the real, no kidding color.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Tuesday, May 31, 2016 - 02:45 pm:

I know what you are saying, Royce. I have nothing good to offer in the way of a suggestion for the modern version of the color to use.
I have seen many original paint cars and carriages with original paint on them that were called Brewster green. But they were many different shades of mid to really dark green so that I know all Brewster greens were not alike.
About twenty years ago, I even looked at a 1925 Brewster open-front limousine (one of the last ones built, but still looked 1915) which was for sale. It was much lighter than you want, although darker than most greens used for '09/'10 Ts now.
I have seen some beautiful dark green Jaguar cars. But I don't recall any dark enough for what you are looking for. I suspect that your best chance would be to experiment with mixing your own green with black. This can be risky unless you have a really good eye for colors. I know that I do not. I have managed to come up with a barely tolerable match a few times. But never a really good match.
And I don't understand why, but I have never found a paint store employee that was willing to experiment either. I would think that if they knew what they were doing? And any good at eyeing colors? That taking "this" and using just a bit more or less of "that" would not be too difficult.
So good luck on your quest! I have seen a number of green '09/'10 Ts over the years. A few of them I have liked the color of. As I recall, Jim Boyden's '10 touring is a pretty good color. But it has been a few years since I have seen it. Have you ever seen that one? I think he may have been in Texas with it a few years ago?
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


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