Here is a repop roller timer purchased from Langs with 300 well oiled miles on it. What happened ?
The plastic between the contacts wallowed out in a couple spots.
Although I cant see clearly, is it just two worn out on one side (bottom)indicating its not running concentric to the camshaft?
Is this another case of too-soft material, like those notorious New Day repops?
Those are actually made by Snyders. All the vendors sell them. They are worthless.
I bought an original tiger timer at Luray for $5. It had practically no wear. I got one other thrown in for free with the purchase of some other stuff. Good used timers are out there and cheap.
Although the timer may be a cheap reproduction and at fault, I second what Alan said. If the camshaft has never been checked for center (and wear on the front cam bearing), I would check it with a camshaft centering tool before installing even an original timer, to be safe.
I have been running a repo from Snyders for the past two years, this is the third year for it. I grease it and clean it about twice a driving season, I do about 1700 miles a year, and about 500 this year. It runs really good. No problem . I think they changed the design a few years ago. My timer usually has more grease than the one shown
I was under the impression the ones made in the last 5 or 6 six years were better quality.
I packed them with red grease. After about a 1000 miles the plastic on all around inside the timer were wallowed enough to cause a miss at about 35 mph.
I got one from Snyders about two years ago. It started to miss on MAG at about 180 miles. It was packed with red grease. Upon inspection it had significant loss of the soft plastic between the contacts.
As we say, just off by a Snyder.
Timers may need lubrication, but how does oil or grease keep from shorting a timer. Decades ago, my Dad and I ran an original New Day Timer, not a repo, and the car had ignition problems. After checking everything, the only thing that we found was that the felt camshaft seal was leaking like it wasn't even there. With that much lubrication the timer was getting plenty of lubrication and appeared to be shorting out. The fix was to replace the seal and timer, but my question is; if timers need lube, how do they keep from shorting out?
I've seen several timers have problems with metal shavings washing down under the insulation and shorting the bottom contact screw to the case - more oil may make this happen faster.
A New Day timer does not require lubrication. As you discovered Terry, they build up burnt carbon on the contacts.
Roller timers on the other hand thrive on lubrication. For the least amount of maintenance when using a roller timer, use a good red wheel bearing grease.
" cheap repop" as in materials ? I think I paid 60.00 for this thing. The engine timing cover was alinged with the cam durring assembly. The cam bearings are new. The timer has been cleaned out several times. Ths wear happend very fast over a period of 100 miles. I dont think the materials used are right for long wear. This is why I had no acceleration and rough ideling. I wonder if I can return it ?
Willie, I have always had excellent responses from Snyders on the rare occasion there has been a problem. Certainly call them and give them the opportunity to help. We all need to let the suppliers know of problems so they can rectify them.
Allan from down under.
I think Willie bought the offending part from Langs. I bet this is not the first time they will hear of a problem with this particular part.
But what is one to do when a MAJOR supplier (vendor as well as manufacturer) sells the inferior parts to resellers....and the reseller says to contact the manufacturer and that firm does not respond?
Fortunately, most manufacturers stand behind their products and will rectify an improperly made part...BUT - there are exceptions. I presently possess a defective part - time will tell.
The insulators could be made out of a epoxy prepreg and compression molded. The ones shown are likely injection molded and I don't think there is a thermoplastic material that will hold up.
Even better, have them machined (CNC machining) out of a good grade of Phenolic material. Sometimes a vendor will have a pre-production run made, and then the supplier (usually in China) changes the material when it goes into production--without notifying the vendor!
This happens in the toy train biz a LOT! Wish they'd make the stuff over here, but they claim we don't know how anymore!
Just thinking out loud, (or maybe not thinking at all...), but I'm wondering how laminated pieces of Formica would perform.
They ought to pull those da*n things. This has been going on for years.
A friend of mine made some roller timers for a pre T Ford using delrin with good results, so I am told.
I bought a new timer and the first thing I checked was the tightness of the pole screw nuts.
None of them were tight enough to suit me so I tightened them which caused the phenolic material to bulge a little so I bored it out to make the surface even again.
It's been working fine since.
Richard, what exactly is delrin? Is it easily available? I'm interested in rebuilding timers and would like to try building insulator rings.
McMaster.com has short Delrin rods 3&4 inches in diameter for around $15.
Jared, I am thinking about doing the same thing this winter. My friend used a keyway cutter on a vertical mill equipped with a rotary table to do the grooves for the contacts. He made his own contacts, but I was thinking about using keys. He drilled and tapped the contacts for the posts. The rest he did on a lathe. Both black and white delrin is available, but the black is harder to find. If memory serves, emetals sells it. Ron Patterson gave me the name of a place that sells the rubber washers he uses on coils. They probably sell washers suitable for timers. Let me know how it goes. If I do it this winter, I'll post photos.
You readily find Delrin on eBay. That's where I got the last hunk of it. There's also a guy who sells it at Hershey, in the orange field. And, McMaster-Carr has all kinds of it.
Richard, it sounds like a fun experiment, doesn't it? Let me know if you get anywhere with your attempts. I think I have an idea or two on how to get the machining done, but as my machining equipment is very old and hasn't been run in a long time it will take me awhile to get it ready for a test run.
Interesting comment about reproduction timers for a T. In the 21st century are not all new parts for the Model T reproduction?
I just bought a crystal timer for my '13, anxious to get it on and try it out.
I was told the orginal crystal timers had to be modified due to the swelling of something. I have one that I bought yrs ago as a novelty timer long before they were known to be unusable unless repaired.
Great timer Richard .... but has a crappy pot metal ring.
Replacement aluminum ring for the Crystal Timer:
Delrin is harder than nylon and has some inherent lubricity. There are also some glass filled grades available. If you do extensive machining on it you need to anneal the part by heating in oil for a few hours. Otherwise it may crack from internal stresses.
Thank you langs for helping me through this situation.You guys are great and have always treated me well. Lucky to have folks like you to buy from. Will
Thanks for the link Royce. I might just try one for the heck of it, or for a spare. So far the C.T. is running very nice.
I wonder why they have not tried using ceramics.