OT model A fuel shut off question

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: OT model A fuel shut off question
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By paul iverson freeport ill. on Thursday, June 02, 2016 - 05:35 pm:

My uncles 28 has not been run for 2 years and not much for 2 before that, the fuel valve worked fine when parked now it is so tight had to use a tool on it to turn it the packing nut came off easy but I can't get the center out should it twist out? Is there any thing else holding it? Any one have any ideas? my Uncle Peat bought this car from original owner in 1950 its pretty original, I learned to drive in this car!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John E Cox on Thursday, June 02, 2016 - 06:06 pm:

Looks like a cone valve.
Remove the nut and spring.
If it will still rotate rotate and pull out on handle.
coat lightly with fuel lube (an aviation product that you can buy from aircraft spruce).
Be careful to not plug the hole in the cone.
Reassemble and it should work just fine.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Thursday, June 02, 2016 - 08:45 pm:

I would have to check for sure but don't think it's a cone. You probable will need the packing that goes in the space between the nut and valve core. Put the handle back on, spray with good penetrating oil (not WD-40) let it soak, then gently twist it back and forth and pull at the same time. I would suggest just pulling the shut off out to work on it and install a gas tank pencil filter. The A parts dealers all carry them and the packing.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Thursday, June 02, 2016 - 08:51 pm:

Mind you, when you pull the valve "plug" out, all the gas in the tank will flow out of the valve body!
put the handle only back on, and use that to turn the valve and pull out the body, then do as John suggested, fuel lube. repack and tighten the packing nut just enough to prevent leaks.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Pawelek Brookshire, Texas on Thursday, June 02, 2016 - 08:59 pm:

Though some of us here also own Model A's you might want to go to ford barn.com and ask the question.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Thursday, June 02, 2016 - 09:01 pm:

OH, noticed Mark's posting; it IS a cone, and one way you could approach this is, with the valve in the off position and an open coffee can under the valve, loosen the flared pipe so that it clears the valve. Have handy a doped up pipe plug (1/4" I think??) and with a plastic glove on your tightening hand, then take the valve off the tank, and quickly screw the plug in; the coffee can should catch all the gas that leaks out. You might want someone helping you, as that gas comes out FAST. Reverse procedure to install valve--make certain valve is in the off position before installing! :-)
The above technique is in case you have too much gas in the tank to just drain it off--and even then, have the coffee can handy, as the valve oftentimes doesn't let ALL the gas out.
Report back!! BTW, neat car!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By paul iverson freeport ill. on Thursday, June 02, 2016 - 09:35 pm:

Thanks guys that sounds good I will use some penetrating oil and try to work it out I thought I might be overlooking something! never had one apart before hate to break things, haste makes waste!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron in Central Massachusetts on Thursday, June 02, 2016 - 10:43 pm:

Hey Paul, the Fordbarn is a great resource, but many of us on here DO own As and are more than happy to answer your questions without suggesting that you join yet another website. I grew up in an "A" family, have been around them 43 years and own 4 "A/AA"s myself (along with 4 "T"s). Feel free to PM me if you have a question in the future. I may not know the answer, but I'll bust my 08-31 Ford-loving A*S to assist you (and learn something I didn't know before in the process).


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Thursday, June 02, 2016 - 11:41 pm:

Paul,
If you were able to turn it, now that the packing nut and packing are out, it should almost fall out when you turn it again. Some Kroil won't hurt though! Packing is oftentimes available at a good hardware store if you don't want to wait for a parts order--although if the old packing came out intact, you can probably just put it back in.
And Ron is right, some of us have been around As a long time!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By paul iverson freeport ill. on Friday, June 03, 2016 - 11:00 am:

Thanks guys for the good advice! Got it out with no harm I have a old tube of valve Greece but I will look in to fuel lube. I don't change things I don't have to but this packing is hard as iron!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron in Central Massachusetts on Friday, June 03, 2016 - 12:37 pm:

Best to put a new packing in since you've gone to all the trouble to get it out.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Friday, June 03, 2016 - 02:08 pm:

Paul,
that happens (packing hardens). I wouldn't advise buying teflon packing for this instance, unless it's the yellow fuel-resistant packing; the good old-fashioned graphite/lead & cotton stuff works just fine.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Friday, June 03, 2016 - 02:21 pm:

OH Paul,
Now that your valve part picture has downloaded (dial-up ain't fun!) check for a small washer imbedded in the packing; that spring pushes against the washer, which compresses the packing. Otherwise the sharp end of the spring just digs into the packing.
Actually, if it wasn't leaking before, you might just squeeze the packing a bit to loosen it up, and put it back together.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Friday, June 03, 2016 - 08:50 pm:

It's been a long time between rebuilding Model A fuel shut off valves at the shop. By time it's pulled and rebuilt it less expensive for the customer to just install a new one. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Kramer,Woodstock,Ontario,Canada on Friday, June 03, 2016 - 10:32 pm:

Paul,
If there are any rough spots on the tapered valve stem or the valve housing.You can use a fine valve grinding compound to cleans things up.When it is nice & smooth,make sure you clean all of the valve grinding compound off of both parts.I hope this helps.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By paul iverson freeport ill. on Friday, June 03, 2016 - 11:34 pm:

Ron & David your right the packing is hard as a rock! I cant even cut it with a knife! and yes the washer was imbedded in packing got it loose with a knife, Scott the taper looks real good it did not leak before. it took a cresent wrench to turn it even with the packing nut off. I think I have some old graphite packing if I can find it. I want to keep all original parts when ever possible. this car has a interesting story would it be to O-T to post it?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Saturday, June 04, 2016 - 01:41 am:

RE: "interesting story would it be to O-T to post it?" OT yes but post it anyway, it's Ford and a neat car. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Saturday, June 04, 2016 - 01:56 am:

Mark, Unless repo parts have improved a lot since I looked at gas shut off, those were almost worthless!
Paul, yes, please do post the story!! Just label it OT for those who might get upset!!
:-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Todd, ............Red Deer, Alberta on Saturday, June 04, 2016 - 11:04 am:

I've been told that toothpaste is a good, fine, abrasive to use for lapping in fuel valves.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By paul iverson freeport ill. on Saturday, June 04, 2016 - 11:38 am:

Thanks guys! it seems to be working fine! it turns with finger tips now. but now it wont start! points are just powdery a little clean up and it should be ok but its raining now anyway


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Saturday, June 04, 2016 - 12:05 pm:

Somewhere on the internet I found a chart of common toothpastes listing their abrasiveness. Now I doubt that was done for use as a lapping compound, but more for people who don't want to polish off the enamel on their teeth. Thought I'd saved the URL, but now can't find it.
There was quite a difference between different brands.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Saturday, June 04, 2016 - 12:09 pm:

Somewhere on the internet I found a chart of common toothpastes listing their abrasiveness. Now I doubt that was done for use as a lapping compound, but more for people who don't want to polish off the enamel on their teeth. Thought I'd saved the URL, but now can't find it.
There was quite a difference between different brands.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Saturday, June 04, 2016 - 05:35 pm:

David;
The current made shut off valves seem to be working good. There were some made a few years back that were junk. We have been getting ours from Snyder's.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Saturday, June 04, 2016 - 06:15 pm:

Mark,
That's good to hear; one thing that really gets me going is poorly made repro parts!


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