1911 Coils vs 1916 Coils

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: 1911 Coils vs 1916 Coils
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Philip Berg on Friday, June 03, 2016 - 12:15 pm:

This summer I'll be picking up my gpa's 1911 t and I want to make sure I understand the differences between years and coils. From my memory as a young boy the coil box was wood and so were the coils. For some reason grandpa was always moving them around on tours, also there is not top to the coil box either.

I'd like to start the car prior to loading on the trailer for the trip back to California because I'll have access to a very nice shop and I could fix any minor issues quickly.

So can I bring a set later coils (16) and use them in the 11 temporarily?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Don Skille on Friday, June 03, 2016 - 12:23 pm:

No the late coils do not interchange with the early ones,they are a different size.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By R.V. Anderson on Friday, June 03, 2016 - 12:54 pm:

Don is right. Depending on when it was built, your '11 could have come with either a Kingston box with T-4232 coils, a Heinze box with T-4611 coils, or a Jacobson-Brandow with T-4263 coils.

The Kingston 4232 appeared in late 1910 and was used until late 1911. The Heinze 4611 appeared in mid-January of 1911 and was used until the end of 1913 (The part number remained the same but the coils themselves changed considerably during that time). The Jacobson-Brandow 4263 is quite rare, having been used only for about a month from late June to late July of 1911, and only on a serial number range of about 5,000 cars.

L to R: Kingston 4232, Heinze 4611, and J-B 4263.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By R.V. Anderson on Friday, June 03, 2016 - 12:57 pm:

Addressing your question about getting the car started, you could certainly bring a later metal box with later coils to get it started, but as Don pointed out, the later coils designed for use in the metal coilbox will not fit in the earlier wooden boxes.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Perry Goble on Friday, June 03, 2016 - 01:09 pm:

Do you know for sure that the 1911 has a 1911 coil box? Some older restorations used later coil boxes and coils because the earlier ones were hard to find . I have seen NRS and early T coil boxes converted to take the later coils .


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Friday, June 03, 2016 - 01:18 pm:

If I recall correctly, Ford Motor Company actively encouraged dealers to swap out the wood coilboxes on 1913 and earlier Fords with the later metal boxes and standardized coils, so some of these updates to the later coil box and coils happened during the period of original use of these cars.

My dad told me in the early days of the antique car hobby (late 1940s/early 1950s), there was a dealership in Blue Earth, MN that had a large inventory of wood coilboxes that they had taken off 1913 and earlier Fords when doing the swap to metal boxes on customers' cars.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary London, Camarillo, CA on Friday, June 03, 2016 - 02:01 pm:

Phillip;

If you need to borrow a coil box with a set of coils for the trip let me know, I'll loan them to you.

If it turns out you do have the earlier box and coils R.V. can rebuild them and does an excellent job. The points and the fit are different from the later ones, so it;s not something everyone can do. He rebuilt my '11 Jacobson Brandow coils.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Philip Berg on Friday, June 03, 2016 - 02:56 pm:

Ok thanks guys, I do know the box is wood but that's about it at this time.

Gary I have a new phone so I don't have you phone number can you text me (if you still have mine) your number? I'll take you up on that offer for the coil box.

I'm leaving California June 24th and coming back July 11th.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Val Soupios on Saturday, June 04, 2016 - 01:50 pm:

Philip they make reproduction wood boxes that are dimensionally modified to use the later coils so you may be lucky and have one of those on your car. After years of keeping Heinze and Jacobson coil boxes going on my cars I finally went that route. Today you can get new coils for the old design boxes but that was not possible years ago.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Philip Berg on Sunday, June 05, 2016 - 03:06 pm:

Val who makes the repro boxes for later coils?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Sunday, June 05, 2016 - 03:26 pm:

https://www.modeltford.com/item/5000H.aspx


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Val Soupios on Wednesday, June 08, 2016 - 10:49 am:

Philip sorry for not responding sooner but my internet has been down. Langs had them in their catalogs but I do not have a current one handy. I know Langs showed them for Heinze and Jacobson because that is where I got them originally. I used the switch and hardware from my old boxes but I think they also had that listed in their catalog as well.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James A. Golden on Wednesday, June 08, 2016 - 03:46 pm:

If you buy a repro wood coil box, you will have to know what you need and are buying or the holes in the wood firewall will not properly line up with the wood coil box holes.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Wednesday, June 08, 2016 - 04:28 pm:

Not so sure about that James - from what I can tell the hole pattern on the dash is the same on every Model T from 1909 - 1925. A metal coil box from 1919 bolts right on to a 1910 firewall for example.


I bought one of the repro wood coil boxes from the link I provided above and it fit my 1912 (now John Mays) perfectly.

There are some el - cheapo reproduction wooden firewalls with the holes drilled improperly. Be sure when buying the firewall to get one of the quality products made by Jon Anderson for best results.


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